Crime Versus Sin–Does Paige Patterson know the difference?

There's no room in the church for whistleblowers – Paige Patterson

Paige Patterson started his sermon with 1 Corinthians 6.  His main message was that you and I do not bring sin of the church out into the open so the media – or law enforcement – might judge it. 

His message is called, So You Believe in the inerrancy of God’s word…well Bully for YOU!

Inerrancy, simplistically is basically the bible is accurate and completely free from error.  I linked to a urban dictionary so you can see what is meant by Bully for YOU.  I think in this case it’s basically saying GOOD for you with sarcasm.

Paige then goes into a lesson about why you should bring matters to the church, and not the media and as he also stated….law enforcement. 

Funny thing is if humans in history had followed this belief system that even if the church is wrong?  You need to ROLL with it?  No one would have broke off from the main church back in history, and we wouldn’t have different denominations today. 

All the theologians we like to read about, or love to death?  For example, Luther, Calvin, Wesley and many others?  They would be non existent, and we would still be under the rule of a cruel religious system.

Remember the history that when individuals tried to take things to the church the church ran right over them.  They tortured people, and killed them.  This was ‘church business’, and they shut you down with the threat of their power.

Sadly, it seems the church trying a different tactic.  They can’t use the torture method of the past, but they will use lies and propaganda instead.

History is repeating itself, and the means maybe different….yet the message is the same.

No matter what ….. keep it in the church!

Morality of Knowing the difference between Sin and Crime

To me it seems these church leaders with all their education, study, and knowledge still don’t seem to grasp the difference between CRIME and SIN.  I’m speaking more on a morality principal here.  Crime is sin of course, but not every sin is crime as in police involvement, etc.

People LOVE to use the sexual abuse cover-up of the Catholic church against them for a host of reasons, and that circumstance does show they also didn’t view crime and sin properly at that time. 

The Catholic hierarchy had the notion that child rape was a sin rather than a crime. Hence the emphasis on forgiveness, therapy, repentance - rather than removal, prosecution and investigation. Obviously, there's one reason for this: they were defending the reputation of the church by hiding its darkest secrets, and they were using the authority of religion to do so.

Faith organizations outside the Catholic Church do this as well, and they see it as somewhat different FOR THEM.  I guess they feel they can do it ‘better’ or something.  Yet, in most cases they do this for the same reasons:  hiding its darkest secrets, and they are using the authority of religion to do so.

Now, I think we all realize there are certain circumstances that can be dealt with in the church.  It’s the same with the personnel issues with the staff.  Not every single item needs to be out in the open.  Its better to handle gossip about members, or personnel issues like tardiness within the church.  When aspects grow beyond the garden variety sins?  They can be crimes, and no where in the bible will you find that we are NOT to take that to police. 

Paige Patterson missed one KEY word in scripture he presented.  That word ‘trivial’.  How he could have missed it?

Trivial Matter or Not so Trivial…that is the question!

What would take for YOU to sue this institution if you worked for it? Paige Patterson asked an attorney that was applying for a job there – around 3:20 mark.  The attorney stated it would have to be a circumstance in which his rights were seriously abused, and he was asked to give some examples. 

Patterson asked him if those circumstances were in the bible, and the attorney stated he did not believe so.  To which Paige Patterson giggled that he was NOT in the employment of this organization.  To Paige this is common, because we live in a world of accusations.

Now my first thought was an attorney working with Paige Patterson isn’t going to bring a lawsuit against the organization over ‘accusations’.  I mean lawyers realize you need more than that to do anything about it. 

We also need to remember that in the past the church had the power to take the law into their own hands, and hand down punishment, judgment, etc. The church today can’t send someone to the RACK, or cut out their tongue and all those torture techniques anymore.  WELL at least in most countries today.

You do find in most cases when an individual or groups of individuals bring the court or the media to the attention of the church?  Its habitual criminal or unethical behavior.

We aren’t speaking of just plain sin here, but crime!

² Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? ³ Do you not know that we are to judge angels?

Now you notice in the above the scripture mentions ‘trivial’ cases.  Rape is not trivial, and child rape is certainly not either.  The habitual covering up abuse cases isn’t trivial.  Its not only sin, but a crime. 

Folks if you are going to judge angels, and if you are going to judge the world don’t you think you can handle the same problems that happen in the Church of God?  - Paige Patterson

⁵ I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, ⁶ but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? ⁷ To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded?

Next, Paige goes into hinting at circumstances are well beyond what you would consider ‘trivial’ cases.  This is where they attempt to melt the trivial with the not trivial issues. 

Its where the church gets themselves into trouble, because they do have a moral obligation to report crime!   See below:

1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, (14) or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

Yet, they feel their reputation would be stained.  How little faith is my first thought.  Sure, you may struggle because of the crime for a period.  God will bless you for doing what is right, and his will – NOT OURS – be done!

I offer a different scripture that speaks to the spirit of the discussion:

1 Timothy 1:8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.
(9) We also know that the law is not made for the righteous but for the law breakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
(10) for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers - and for whatever is contrary to the sound doctrine
(11) that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

Accept Injustices because God told you TOO!

Paige Patterson states that people just want to go to the law, because they feel that the church FAILED them in the judgment process.   They don’t feel justice has been served.

Why don’t you learn to just accept WRONG!  Learn to accept INjustice!  You say its no in my basic makeup to do that!  You know I’m an Irish Texan so lets FIGHT!   (giggles from audience)  But is what God’s word demands.  Why is that? Why would God say, “Why don’t you just accept wrong?”  Why would he ask you to do that?  WELL that all depends on your viewpoint of God!   If in your mind and heart God is a JUST GOD that settles the issue Folks!

What that means is God eventually sets everything right.  If you are wronged?  Somewhere down the line God sets it right!  Well you say, “Well he is to slow!” NOOO!  He is right on time.  When it needs to happen he will set it right.  Than you say, “ I’m dying and he still hasn’t set it right!”  No one said he will could set it right in this life! – Paige Patterson

What Paige needs to think about is if God feels there is sin in the church that needs to come into the light?  He also will use his means to do it, and yes today that could very well be the media and the police. 

No doubt the church may get it wrong from time to time on trivial matters.  Yet, when its not the trivial matters and God is using the media or police?  You also need to accept God’s decision. 

Sadly, Paige Patterson seems to feel you are sinning against the church instead.  The ‘crime’ against him is more important than the crime against society.  No human is that important.

Again there is a BIG difference between SIN and CRIME!  In the bible we read about punishments that people had to endure because of the crimes they committed, and the church sanctioned those punishments.    The bible is full of stories of how people were punished for crimes during that period of history (Exodus has plenty of examples), and how many struggled with their sin (David, for example).

We also have examples later on in church history where the church used its powers to commit injustices….because they had the power to do so.    That’s where the breaks from the church started, and the injustices of the church were the reason.

If what he states is true?  We would only have ONE church, and not all these different denominations.  Chances are Paige would NOT be in his position at the Seminary, because we may still be under rule of the Catholic Church.

Paige also feels people to just accept things as the people in leadership tell you to, and if its not right God will handle them.  You may not see justice, but God will handle that in his own time.  He may not show you his justice, because chances are you would ‘gloat’ about it anyway.  He seems to feel that justice – that you could see -  may damage your walk in faith. 

Yes, he lays it on THICK doesn’t he?

You don’t take matters to the PRESS!

Paige Patterson next decided he would play God, and mention he will ‘expand’ on this scripture of 1 Corinthians 6.   You don’t take matters to the media!

“If I had fifty dollars for every time that I have told somebody from the press: ‘I’m not going to comment on that because, frankly, it’s none of your business; it’s the church of God’ — if I had fifty dollars for every time I’ve done that, this would be a wealthy institution and you wouldn’t have to pay any tuition at all,” he said.
“I’m not going to talk to the press about things that are matters internal to the church of the Living God,” Patterson said. “It is none of their business. And they can’t possibly get it right, and they don’t get it right, so why do you take it to the world of unbelief? Whether that be the court, whether that be the press? ‘Well there’s just no other way to handle it.’ Yes there is. Commit it to the Lord God Almighty.”

Church history shows that the church doesn’t always get things right, and people have gone OUTSIDE the church….or tore off a piece to make a new church due to what Paige feel is ‘matters internal to the church of the living God’.

If we take this stern approach?  All other denominations have their foundation firmly planted in SIN!  How does he live with that reality?  He doesn’t, and no doubt would think that concept is a joke.  Yet, that would mean at times it is OKAY to go outside the church with matter beyond ‘trivial’.  Yes?

⁹ Or do you not know that the unrighteous^[b] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practise homosexuality,^{[c] 10} nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. ¹¹ And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

…and IF you suffer for it. and IF you were misused! And IF you were abused, and if you are not represented properly!  Its Okay.  You can trust it (pointing up) to God who judges justly.  May God grant that we do that. – Paige Patterson

Then he finishes with a prayer:

…That we won’t take our troubles to the press.  That we won’t take out troubles to the government. That we won’t take our troubles anywhere except to the people of God, and beyond that to the Lord Jesus.  And may we as a result present to the Lord Jesus upon his return  a beautifully adorned Bride – the bride of Christ – Holy and Pure upon him.  In Jesus name we pray.  Amen.

When Pastor’s manipulate scripture in this manner their integrity comes into question.   They pretend there is no difference between sin and crime.  They do this to protect themselves, and they feel the reputation of the church.  God doesn’t need their protection, because he is MORE than capable of taking care of it himself.

Let’s be honest with ourselves here!  Paige Patterson is more concerned with HIS reputation, and his post of power.  If he isn’t doing anything immoral or illegal?  He doesn’t need to tell the press that church business its none of their business when they come to him with questions about his conduct.  He should have nothing to hide.  If he is doing nothing wrong?  He should have enough faith to know that God will protect him, and hand out justice as he sees fit.

Cindy Kunsman today wrote an article about Hana Williams today.  The Christian parents that beat her, and starved her to death were sentenced in court this week for their punishment.  The father got 27 years, and the mother received 37 years.  Their actions were sin of course, but thankfully people knew their was also a crime that needed punishment for the good of society.

Yes, it was okay to take those troubles to the court.  There was nothing sinful about it.

When will we – the Body of Christ – demand our teachers of the church use discernment to know the difference between ‘trivial’ sins and crimes against society?  Paige Patterson’s lesson shows clearly how they don’t have a clue.

So You Believe in the inerrancy of God’s word …..Well Bully for YOU! just remember the word ‘trivial’ is there!

Exodus 23:1 Do not spread false reports. Do not help a wicked man by being a false witness.
(2) Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd,
(3) and do not show favoritism to a poor man in his lawsuit.
(4) If you come across your enemy’s ox or donkey wandering off, be sure to take it back to him.
(5) If you see the donkey of someone who hates you fallen down under its load, do not leave it there; be sure you help him with it.
(6) Do not deny justice to your poor people in their lawsuits.
(7) Have nothing to do with a false charge and do not put an innocent or honest person to death, for I will not acquit the guilty.
(8) Do not accept a bribe, for a bribe blinds those who see and twists the words of the righteous.
(9) Do not oppress an alien; you yourselves know how it feels to be aliens, because you where aliens in Egypt.

Additional Reading:

Why Paige Patterson's anti-outsider stance is wrong
And what about Patterson’s insistence that his anti-outsider stance is somehow biblical? If Patterson needs a biblical basis for doing what's right, then he should look to the first thing listed by the prophet Micah. “And what does God require of you? To act justly . . . .” (Micah 6:8)
Advocate says SBC leader gives bad advice
He said if law enforcement does not or cannot act to protect children “whistleblowers in churches should call journalists.”
“More wrongdoing in churches needs to be reported more often to more people who are more apt to stop it and prevent future wrongdoing,” Clohessy said.
“We hope every Baptist rejects this self-serving, unhealthy and often dangerous advice, especially when it comes to sexual and financial crimes, whether known or suspected,” he said.

Paige Patterson (SBC) Advice to Victims of Domestic Violence
Audio of Patterson telling the abuse victim to go home and pray for her spouse.
“I had a woman who was in a church that I served, and she was being subject to some abuse, and I told her, I said, “All right, what I want you to do is, every evening I want you to get down by your bed just as he goes to sleep, get down by the bed, and when you think he’s just about asleep, you just pray and ask God to intervene, not out loud, quietly,” but I said, “You just pray there.”  And I said, “Get ready because he may get a little more violent, you know, when he discovers this.”  And sure enough, he did.  She came to church one morning with both eyes black.  And she was angry at me and at God and the world, for that matter.  And she said, “I hope you’re happy.”  And I said, “Yes ma’am, I am.”  And I said, “I’m sorry about that, but I’m very happy."

Differing Applications of Home and Church - So why is Mary Kassian upset when you write a book about it?

Mary Kassian wrote a review of Rachel Held Evans new book, and it seems she is taking things a bit too personally.  First I want to point out one GREAT comment she wrote, and show you how she sadly doesn’t apply it there after.

I pointed out that though complementarians agree on the principle of complementarity, we often differ as to its application in the home and the church. I emphasized that even those involved in CBMW have a divergence of opinion as to the specifics of how to apply the principles of manhood and womanhood. – Mary Kassian

So why OH why is she getting so upset about Rachel Evans mentioning  the different groups that call themselves complementarian?

Can she not see that maybe it was not her personally that the book represented entirely, but those that use applications differently?  I mean she already admitted even her and Nancy Leigh DeMoss don’t agree on all fronts.  Note:  there is nothing wrong with disagreement, but the way you disagree?  That is where the trouble begins.

She starts by playing games with quotes from the book itself:

A few sentences later, I had my first and best laugh of the whole book. “Evangelical complementarianism,” claims Rachel, “[is] a movement that began as a reaction to second-wave feminism and found some of its first expressions in the writings of Edith Schaeffer (The Hidden Art of Homemaking, 1971) and Elisabeth Elliot (Let Me Be a Woman, 1976).” Rachel goes on to explain that complementarianism rests on the “uncompromising conviction [that] the virtuous woman serves primarily from the home as a submissive wife, diligent homemaker, and loving mother.” (p. xix).

Seriously? “The Hidden Art of Homemaking???!!” I just about fell off my chair. That book was written seventeen years before the inception of CBMW and about twenty years before we adopted the term “complementarian.” I have never even heard of it. I highly doubt whether John Piper and Wayne Grudem—the founders of CBMW—have read it.

Just for a giggle here…The Feminine Mystique by Betty Freidman (1963).  Notice Mary loves to reference this 50 year old book ALL the TIME in her presentations.  What does that say?  Moving on…….

Now Mary Kassian just as Denny Burk both used sections of whole paragraphs out of context to make their point.  We can all admit they are both educated people, and that is why I assume they know what they are doing.  I don’t think they are counting on others to check the entirety of the quotes they write about.  If they did?  They may have a number of comments and questions.

I think they are counting on people NOT checking the sources…lets be honest here!

I don’t view either of them as dumb, so what else can I possibly assume?  Well people that tend to do this – take things out of context – maybe don’t have such a strong point after all.  That is what most people feel when others take on this tactic.

Mary took parts of the introduction in the Rachel Held Evan’s book.  Now, lets look at the statement in its entirety.

Over the next few years, I found myself drawn into more and more of these conversations, especially as my girlfriends and I began getting married and starting families of our own.  Many were influenced by evangelical complementarianism, a movement that began as a reaction to second-wave feminism and found some of its first expressions in the writings of Edith Schaeffer (The Hidden Art of Homemaking, 1971), and Elisabeth Elliot (Let Me Be A Woman, 1976). Hailed as the model wives and homemakers, these women are highly esteemed in the Reformed tradition, where the oft-repeated saying is, 'As many people were brought to the Lord through Mrs. Schaeffer's cinnamon buns as through Dr. Schaeffer's sermons."  But behind the winsome prose lies an uncompromising conviction:  the virtuous woman serves primarily from the home as a submissive wife, diligent homemaker, and loving mother. 

Now, CBMW may not have been started out of the expressions or writings of the author’s (that Mary never heard about) mentioned, but the ‘winsome prose’?  Ahh.  Yeah – its in THERE! I realize she wants to ignore that point.  Anyway…

Respect My Authority!

I had a neighbor years ago that just LOVED to giggle at Cartman from South Park.  I have watched the show a couple of times, and yes it is for mature audiences.   The show lampoons reality for some, and yes it is satire.

 

Cartman is loud, obnoxious, racist and obese—is often portrayed as an antagonist whose has a anti-Semitic attitude.  He is a child of a single mother, and she oozes the meek and mild attitude of ‘how women are to be’ attitude.  On the other hand, she also represents an extreme model of free love if you catch my drift!  Cartman tends to be in denial about the one side of his mother, and yet loves to control and manipulate the other side.

People tend to giggle at Cartman because he is one to demand you respect his authority, and yet you see the loud, obnoxious and immature boy that doesn’t have much to respect.

 

I found this description of him: Cartman is frequently portrayed as an antagonist or villain whose actions set in motion the events serving as the main plot of an episode. Other children and classmates are alienated by Cartman's insensitive, sexist, racist, homophobic, anti-sematic, lazy, misogynistic, self-righteous, and wildly insecure behavior, but are occasionally influenced by his obtrusive, manipulative, and propagandist antics.

Okay.  I have to admit there are some in the church to me that represent Cartman to a tea!    Jack Schaap we wrote about within the last couple of months, and YES his attitude is the extreme case of what I’m talking about.  You remember how he started his ‘holy’ tirade?

ABC news called me this week and said "We heard that you believe that men should be in charge of their wives"
I said, "No sir, I didn't say that. I said God said that. He said husbands are the head of the wife."
I said, "You got a problem with what I said when I'm quoting the Bible, then maybe you should take it up with God."
He said, "Do you think that's appropriate?"
I said, "Son, anything God says is appropriate. I think you better get that straight right now."
I never apologize for standing where God stands. I never worry standing where God stands. Somebody says, "You know what they are going to say about you?"
Pffft, who cares?
Stand in line, pick a number, slob!
Get you little squirt gun out and squirt away.
Bigger things to worry about. Heaven, Hell, life, death.

Does anyone doubt that such a man would also love to scream out, “RESPECT MY AUTHORITY!”

 

David J. Stewart wrote an article that I picked apart many years ago.  He was asked about divorcing an abusive spouse.

Interestingly, and sadly, all we see on the internet and in society today is talk about domestic violence; but NEVER do we hear anything about statistics on wives who refuse to obey their husbands. It is evil. It is just as sinful for a wife to frustrate her husband through insubordination and disobedience as it is for a man to commit domestic violence. I am not lessening the sin of domestic violence, I am emphasizing the sin of wives who rebel against their husbands by not being obedient. I realize this is ancient mentality to feminists today; but it is 100% Biblical doctrine. A wife is expected by God to obey her husband. Feminists are eagerly willing to crucify abusive husbands; BUT they won't even address the issue of wives who disobey, mistreat, and frustrate their husbands. It takes two to tango.

Does anyone doubt that such a man would also love to scream out, “RESPECT MY AUTHORITY!”

 

Reb Bradley wrote an article about Emotional Abuse and Marriage.

Let us remember that the apostles who gave us God's commands were themselves the victims of severe emotional and physical abuse. They, like Pastor Richard Wurmbrand, endured torture beyond anything we have ever seen. In his books, Pastor Wurmbrand describes his 14 years in a Romanian prison at the hands of communist torturers. His love and compassion for his torturers testifies of the assurance we have as Christians that we too can selflessly love our wives and husbands.

Certainly if those tortured on a daily basis can see the good that comes from suffering, then we as minimally suffering, soft Americans can handle the opportunities for growth that come our way through the difficulties of marriage. If we are able to cease our "giving to get" mentality and begin simply "giving" we would finally be able enjoy the fulfillment that comes from loving selflessly in the image of Christ.

Mr. Bradley feels that you came into marriage to ‘get’ instead of serve. You must be like Pastor Warmbrand, and have love and compassion for your abuser as you stay and be tortured.  If you can’t your to soft!

 

Does anyone doubt that such a man would also love to scream out, “RESPECT MY AUTHORITY!”

How DARE you approach to Domestic Violence in the church!

There was a discussion on Mark Driscoll recently, and they posted his message to abusive men.  I remember the first time I heard it, and I had just dealt with a family going through a very hard time.  He said some things that I wanted to say, and I felt some of the rage he was feeling as he screamed, "HOW DARE YOU!".

It was the human part inside of me over the hurt and anger I felt over a family being terribly mistreated.  I was very UPSET over their abuser's entitled mindset over how he was justified.  I was seething over how he could find fault in everyone and everything, and not once did he step up to the plate with his own sin.

Abusive people (not just men) are great at blaming everything and anything for this behavior.  They are not capable of owning things, because it makes them feel 'less than'.  It makes them feel powerless, and it makes them vulnerable.  They look at it like some opening that people are waiting for so they can charge it to crush them into the ground.  What they don't realize?  Most people aren't interested in that, and yet that is HOW they view the world and the people within it.  Remember how I always say they tend to do things with motive?  They assume everyone does that!

You see from time to time when they will admit certain things, but if you stopped long enough to listen?  They always have a BUT attached.  There is always justification.  There is always some hurt or reason for their actions.  What they never offer up is ownership of their own poop, and yet demand it from others in a very threatening way.  They will say they have a bad temper, and yet when you get into the nuts and bolts of that aspect?  Their anger stops all conversation.  You may be able to speak of it one day, and yet the next time HOW DARE YOU!

The other side of the story

I believe it was a couple of months ago I had posted a message from Jimmy Carter.  He had spoke about the abuse of women within the faith realm.  Recently, I had was reading ibelieve.com and someone posted an article regarding a message he recently again stated.  Jimmy Carter: Abuse of Women? Blame the Catholics and Southern Baptists.  It was amazing to me how not one of the people looked to read the transcript, or even listen to the short audio message the man presented.  They just assumed what the article said was so, and when others posted what was actually said?  His politics were the response.  They wouldn't go near the truth.

I noticed that when some were trying to point out the inaccurate information within the article that those posters were accused of NOT living during the man's time being President.  They were told they didn't understand the man's politics. 

I remember those years very clearly myself.  I had parents on both sides of the political realm, and YES that made for some interesting dinner conversations.  I will mention they did keep it respectful.  I wasn't the type of child (or young adult at that point) to engage with the conversations, but my younger brother just thrived on it.  I remember he had a huge world map that took up his entire one wall in his bedroom, and during the time he literally took a black sharpie marker to remove Iran off it.  He also had an American flags in his bedroom window for each Hostage that was being held.  The intensity of the conversations during that time for dinner?  WELL it was on high alert, and I never was like my brother as he got into the discussions.  He did very well defending his views, but I felt intimidated by whole conversation myself.  It was a very intense time in history, and I remember wondering if I asked a question would it be more like jabbing a stick into a beehive. I wasn't ever really comfortable with politics as a child, but as I grew older I tend to discuss it in small portions at a time.  My brother got another world map AFTER this time, and I noticed he left it alone this time! 

It seems once a person is branded  you just can't look at anything else they have to say within that faith board.  I knew that Mr. Carter had issues with the Southern Baptist or the SBC.  I couldn't believe that he would actually SAY the things the author of the article mentioned.  I searched the speech out, and found the transcript and sure enough that wasn't what he said.  The video presentation was what I sought out first.  Mr. Carter's transcript on what he said is what I searched for next. 

The article in question claimed:

Jimmy Carter has once again blamed traditional religion, particularly Southern Baptists and Roman Catholics, for "creating an environment where violations against women are justified".

I did a search of the transcript for the portion that was quoted. This is what was mentioned:

This view that the Almighty considers women to be inferior to men is not restricted to one religion or tradition. Its influence does not stop at the walls of the church, mosque, synagogue, or temple. Women are prevented from playing a full and equal role in many faiths, creating an environment in which violations against women are justified.

The truth is that male religious leaders have had – and still have – an option to interpret holy teachings either to exalt or subjugate women. They have, for their own selfish ends, overwhelmingly chosen the latter.

The article quoted:

Their continuing choice provides a foundation or justification for much of the pervasive persecution and abuse of women throughout the world," said Carter. Carter goes on to list horrific violations against women such as rape, genital mutilation, abortion of female embryos and spousal battery.

What the transcript and video showed he said was:

Their continuing choice provides the foundation or justification for much of the pervasive persecution and abuse of women throughout the world. This is in clear violation not just of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights but also the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, Moses and the prophets, Muhammad, and founders of other great religions - all of whom have called for proper and equitable treatment of all the children of God. It is time we had the courage to challenge these views and set a new course that demands equal rights for women and men, girls and boys.

At their most repugnant, the belief that women are inferior human beings in the eyes of God gives excuses to the brutal husband who beats his wife, the soldier who rapes a woman, the employer who has a lower pay scale for women employees, or parents who decide to abort a female embryo. It also costs many millions of girls and women control over their own bodies and lives, and continues to deny them fair and equal access to education, health care, employment, and influence within their own communities.

The quotes caught a few people by surprise, and then of course the SBC or those that are 'Baptist' aren't naive and give dangerous advice to those victims of domestic violence.  I mentioned Paige Patterson's quick little remark about domestic violence, and just to add a bit of sugar gave them a link to the audio of him actually 'uttering' the ignorance they claim their church doesn't endorse.  You remember his advice?

He was approached due to this woman's husband beating her. She was told to go to the end of the bed each night, and when he is about asleep you start to pray for him out loud so he can hear. He told her to get ready, because he might get a little more violent. SURE enough she came to church that Sunday with both eyes black. She was angry at me and said, "I HOPE your HAPPY!" I told her, "Yes Maam I am, but I'm sorry about what happen." What she didn't know is her husband came to church, and he was staying in the back - when I gave the invitation to come to Christ - he came. "My wife has been praying for me, and I can't believe what I did to her! Do you think Christ would want someone like me?" NOW they have a great marriage, and it all came about because of she sought God.

I was told then:

let's not jump from a few idiots to an entire denomination. I know some really obnoxious atheists, but I have enough perspective to realize that not all atheists are like that. I am always mildly amused when people who decry stereotypes left and right try to lump a group of Christians into one stereotype. It's like their own hypocrisy escapes their notice.

They were actually shocked to find out that Paige Patterson isn't just any pastor; he's the president of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.   I mentioned what John Piper said about taking verbal abuse for a season, and maybe a smack for the night - then you could come to the church for help.  Once again they stated they had never heard a pastor condone domestic violence from the pulpit.  Then of course the typical comment came:

The last I heard God hates divorce. Why would any christian pastor support it? Maybe, just maybe, these pastors were trying to keep the marriage together. Maybe, just maybe, we don't know all the facts in those supposed situations where pastors counciled women to be "abused" by their husbands.

 Maybe just maybe the church just plain doesn't wish to face that their actions don't line up with their message.

Its like they are taking it as attack due to pride of a denomination, and not looking at the whole picture.  The Christian church ISN'T the only doing this!  You see other faiths such as Jewish or Muslim do the same thing, and justify it in their very own unique flavor of oppression just as the Christians do. 

I realize that men, women and children that are dealing with abuse tend to doubt their reality.  Its not US that are struggling with the reality of domestic violence, but the ones that don't have to when it comes acknowledging it exists and is happening!  When someone mentions that some misbehavior on your behave may have caused another person to abuse you?  Don't listen to the lies!  They are just not strong enough to handle the truth, and find the strength within you to find others that maybe scared as well - but are willing to place their faith towards what they know is right.  When it comes down to it?  We have alot of cowards within our houses of faith.  They may do awesome things in other areas, but when it comes to families NOT so much!  Their cowardly ways of not placing their faith in action towards hurting people show they may not be capable of acknowledging reality.  Don't spend the energy trying to get them to see, but spend your energy finding those that are willing to acknowledge it.  They are like abusers that refuse to hear, and all you do is bang your head against a wall.  Your first priority is your safety and well being.  If the house of faith isn't willing to step up and do what they say they will do - allow the secular world to help instead.  You see their faith can't be all that strong, and their truth can't be truth if they have to manipulate you with guilt.  They can acknowledge that spiritual leaders give rotten advice, but can't acknowledge that some may take that ignorance to heart?  Its not US - its THEM!  If they truly wished to help broken people did we not hand them that opportunity, and did they NOT take it?  They claim they don't know all the facts, and yet:

No, we don't know all the facts, but we do know what they said publicly. According to the descriptions given by the pastors themselves: one said women should be willing to take a smack. Another told her to antagonize a man who was physically violent.

and they claim their churches don't condone violence? Their leaders do, but they don't?  Those leaders are not dealt with, but ignored so is that WHY it doesn't happen to them?

If you place Mr. Carter's personal politics aside, and people bothered to listen to what the man said about faith and domestic violence?  They should be ashamed of themselves, but they aren't it seems.  Its easier to shame abuse victims, and ignore perpetrators of abuse just like their leaders do.  Maybe they can't acknowledge us because then they would have to acknowledge those leaders dangerous advice.  They call those that flee 'worldly', and yet their 'do as I say and not as I do' isn't for some reason.

The Christian faith states we are to be different from those of the world.  How are they different in this case?  Their acts of denial are different, and yet if you think about it - its not so different is it?  If you need help please run if someone is trying to guilt you into staying within a dangerous household.  If you have the church telling you that you can't be right with God if you flee?  Stop and ask yourself if they are willing to put their money where their mouth is!  Chances are they won't.  Those that find you a safe place are those that are safe themselves.  The rest just like spiritual pixie dust, and condone their spiritual leaders and their ignorant advice by NOT SPEAKING OUT AGAINST IT!  They aren't so right with God are they?  To me?  They are the ones that should repent, and yet their denial, pride and arrogance won't allow it.

They say there are two sides to every story!  Take a GOOD LOOK at their side, and let that marinate really well.  Do they stand for faith, truth and love?  To me it looks like cowardly.  They can't stand in faith knowing that truth, and showing love towards the victims as the bible calls them to do.  That's your other side the story!

Paige Patterson and the SBC enable Domestic Violence!

Internet Archive Recording of his statements




I found this article on Because It Matters

Here is an portion of the recording:

I had a woman who was in a church that I served, and she was being subject to some abuse, and I told her, I said, “All right, what I want you to do is, every evening I want you to get down by your bed just as he goes to sleep, get down by the bed, and when you think he’s just about asleep, you just pray and ask God to intervene, not out loud, quietly,” but I said, “You just pray there.” And I said, “Get ready because he may get a little more violent, you know, when he discovers this.” And sure enough, he did. She came to church one morning with both eyes black. And she was angry at me and at God and the world, for that matter. And she said, “I hope you’re happy.” And I said, “Yes ma’am, I am.” And I said, “I’m sorry about that, but I’m very happy.”

And what she didn’t know when we sat down in church that morning was that her husband had come in and was standing at the back, first time he ever came. And when I gave the invitation that morning, he was the first one down to the front. And his heart was broken, he said, “My wife’s praying for me, and I can’t believe what I did to her.” And he said, “Do you think God can forgive somebody like me?” And he’s a great husband today. And it all came about because she sought God on a regular basis. And remember, when nobody else can help, God can.

And in the meantime, you have to do what you can at home to be submissive in every way that you can and to elevate him. Obviously, if he’s doing that kind of thing he’s got some very deep spiritual problems in his life and you have to pray that God brings into the intersection of his life those people and those events that need to come into his life to arrest him and bring him to his knees.