Monday, November 12, 2012

Differing Applications of Home and Church - So why is Mary Kassian upset when you write a book about it?

11 comments Posted by Hannah at 4:46 PM

things christians fight aboutMary Kassian wrote a review of Rachel Held Evans new book, and it seems she is taking things a bit too personally.  First I want to point out one GREAT comment she wrote, and show you how she sadly doesn’t apply it there after.
I pointed out that though complementarians agree on the principle of complementarity, we often differ as to its application in the home and the church. I emphasized that even those involved in CBMW have a divergence of opinion as to the specifics of how to apply the principles of manhood and womanhood. – Mary Kassian
So why OH why is she getting so upset about Rachel Evans mentioning  the different groups that call themselves complementarian?

Can she not see that maybe it was not her personally that the book represented entirely, but those that use applications differently?  I mean she already admitted even her and Nancy Leigh DeMoss don’t agree on all fronts.  Note:  there is nothing wrong with disagreement, but the way you disagree?  That is where the trouble begins.

She starts by playing games with quotes from the book itself:
A few sentences later, I had my first and best laugh of the whole book. “Evangelical complementarianism,” claims Rachel, “[is] a movement that began as a reaction to second-wave feminism and found some of its first expressions in the writings of Edith Schaeffer (The Hidden Art of Homemaking, 1971) and Elisabeth Elliot (Let Me Be a Woman, 1976).” Rachel goes on to explain that complementarianism rests on the “uncompromising conviction [that] the virtuous woman serves primarily from the home as a submissive wife, diligent homemaker, and loving mother.” (p. xix).

Seriously? “The Hidden Art of Homemaking???!!” I just about fell off my chair. That book was written seventeen years before the inception of CBMW and about twenty years before we adopted the term “complementarian.” I have never even heard of it. I highly doubt whether John Piper and Wayne Grudem—the founders of CBMW—have read it.
Just for a giggle here…The Feminine Mystique by Betty Freidman (1963).  Notice Mary loves to reference this 50 year old book ALL the TIME in her presentations.  What does that say?  Moving on…….

Now Mary Kassian just as Denny Burk both used sections of whole paragraphs out of context to make their point.  We can all admit they are both educated people, and that is why I assume they know what they are doing.  I don’t think they are counting on others to check the entirety of the quotes they write about.  If they did?  They may have a number of comments and questions.

I think they are counting on people NOT checking the sources…lets be honest here!

I don’t view either of them as dumb, so what else can I possibly assume?  Well people that tend to do this – take things out of context – maybe don’t have such a strong point after all.  That is what most people feel when others take on this tactic.

Mary took parts of the introduction in the Rachel Held Evan’s book.  Now, lets look at the statement in its entirety.
Over the next few years, I found myself drawn into more and more of these conversations, especially as my girlfriends and I began getting married and starting families of our own.  Many were influenced by evangelical complementarianism, a movement that began as a reaction to second-wave feminism and found some of its first expressions in the writings of Edith Schaeffer (The Hidden Art of Homemaking, 1971), and Elisabeth Elliot (Let Me Be A Woman, 1976). Hailed as the model wives and homemakers, these women are highly esteemed in the Reformed tradition, where the oft-repeated saying is, 'As many people were brought to the Lord through Mrs. Schaeffer's cinnamon buns as through Dr. Schaeffer's sermons."  But behind the winsome prose lies an uncompromising conviction:  the virtuous woman serves primarily from the home as a submissive wife, diligent homemaker, and loving mother. 
Now, CBMW may not have been started out of the expressions or writings of the author’s (that Mary never heard about) mentioned, but the ‘winsome prose’?  Ahh.  Yeah – its in THERE! I realize she wants to ignore that point.  Anyway…

Monday, November 05, 2012

Women In Ministry: The Feminine Feel..and the World of Church

0 comments Posted by Hannah at 7:24 AM

I read an interesting article this morning about women in ministry.  To me it could also be women in leadership.  When you run a ministry – that is leadership.  It could be Sunday School teacher right over to Top Coffee Server!  Preacher to Janitor!  The leadership is in the serving of God and others.

A well rounded couple decided to take on their youth ministry together.  They trained together, studied together, and worked together.  He took the high school students, and she took the junior high.  Together it was THEIR ministry. 

In the world of ‘church’ its more like his ministry, and she helps…as a proper ‘help meet’ should.  Yes, she does the same job in a different age group.  She is a woman in ministry, and lets face facts here…in leadership as well.  I know.  I know.  How usurping of me huh?!

Why is that so hard to admit?  I’m sorry but it seems so childish to me.  Her husband is okay with it, but the ‘world of church’ doesn’t seem to be.

What stuck me was the paragraph:
I was also raised as a missionary kid, and had a front-row seat to the full-throttle partnership missionary couples brought to their ministry.
Yes, it was usually the man’s name on the paycheck. But the women worked too, often at great cost. Until recently, it was not uncommon for mission agencies to require children to be sent to boarding school, freeing the women up for full-time service. It was/is a crappy policy. But those women? They got the job done, paycheck, title, status, or not.
So I get a little prickly when people criticize, belittle, or get affectionately patronizing about the contributions of the "helpers": the hyper-involved homeschooling moms, the "controlling" church matrons, the ministry wives who seem to live at the church. I mean, I’d like to see a church try to run without those powerhouse women, women who have dedicated their whole lives to the service of God and others.
I’ll see your hot-shot pastor and raise you my grandma.
No kidding!
She made this comment after she told of a story of an encounter with one of the youth’s fathers.  He wanted to know basically what she does.  This was after she mentioned all that THEY have done.  Her husband appeared, and it seemed all was well with the world.  The father was able to speak with someone in ‘guard’ finally.
For some reason it seems women should be okay with a concept that is familiar in the business world.  We have all hear about it.  The lower status person comes up with a great idea, or does a great job at something.  The boss or the one in charge takes the credit.  The person responsible for the achievement is to be okay with basically keeping their mouth shut.  It’s a game in business, but it shouldn’t be the same game in our places of worship.  God sees the truth, and do we forget that matters? 
This type of ‘ouch’ approach is what hinders the church’s image, and makes women feel stepped on.   Its is seen as sexist, and lets face facts here – it is.  Preachers can parrot that women are equal in the eyes of God, but have differing roles all they wish.  How that statement should satisfy everyone.  When they see this attitude that is prevalent in the ‘world of church’…clue one that is why they don’t take you seriously!   Its not because they a feminist.  Men wouldn’t appreciate this attitude either.  This attitude is why you have to constantly back up and justify your beliefs.  The spin you place on how it isn’t wrong…isn’t working.  Your attitude – not beliefs – doesn’t line up with common sense and rational thinking.  It just doesn’t.   I mean lets face facts here if it was done in reverse?  It wouldn’t feel very honoring would it?  Would it help you ‘feel’ your role?
Yes, God is proud of the women that seem to take the backseat.  He knows.  Its not the back seat to him, and he sees the selfishness in it.  They know they will get the reward later on when it really counts.  If you mention appreciation of same sort towards these women of God presently?  Well, lets just say I’m glad SOME men and women know the real truth and don’t project this ‘religious’ brand of politically correct junk to heart.  If acknowledgement of sorts is somewhat pride for women – it’s the same for the male gender as well.  Yet we all know its not….

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