Tuesday, August 03, 2010

Agenda - its so clear to see!

Posted by Hannah at 9:10 PM

Our Agenda
Let the name calling begin!  I just did a quick web search on the recently released, FREEDOM FOR CHRISTIAN WOMEN COALITION demand for an apology over teachings that can lead down the wrong path.  As usual when you speak out against how approaches to this could lead to dangerous circumstances?  The dysfunctional men that stand behind them (Counsel of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood) start fanning the flames of some feminist uprising, because they refuse to see past the end of their nose.   To me you see agenda.

Why do say AGENDA?  Way of Life it seems got extremely defensive over it, and without knowing WHOM the people are behind the request!  Lets look at the their point of view, because it shows the attitude right away.  CHRISTIAN FEMINISTS DEMAND APOLOGY FOR “TEACHING THAT DENIGRATES WOMEN”

Does David Cloud know the sources in which he calls 'feminists'?  It doesn't seem so, or he wouldn't have placed that out there.  A respected author would know their sources, and its a shame he got lazy on that part.  A respected writer always tends to allow their writers to make up their minds, and get people thinking as well!  Sadly, you can tell by his agenda ridden article that it wouldn't have mattered anyway WHOM the people are.  He didn't like it, and so they are feminists.  It sounds like a title that may catch some attention though doesn't it?  

The saddest part is?  He never read the apology before he starts making strange over the top comments about it.  If he claims he read it?  I think he may wish to go back, and read it again.

A group that calls itself the Freedom for Christian Women Coalition has issued a “Demand for Apology” from those who teach that women should submit to their husbands and that they are forbidden to preach.
I mean look at the very first statement?  Does that sum up the apology at all?  Not even close.  Its a way of getting his readers all fired up.

The group called out the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood in particular for its “complementarian” interpretation that says men and women “are equally in the image of God but assigns them complementary differences in role and function.” This position became part of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Baptist Faith and Message in 1998. It says in part that “the wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ.” This statement enrages the shrill, in-your-face feminists associated with the Freedom for Christian Women Coalition.
 Actually, the Danver's Statement has been questioned by many.  The SBC has lost good missionaries, churches, pastors, etc that didn't agree with it.

I can imagine what kind of respond they must have received when questioning them about it.  I mean LOOK at the above reaction again?

We must divert from what the Freedom for Christian Women Coalition maybe trying to say by stating they are: shrill, in-your-face feminists.  If you take issue with something?  Don't respond in a Christlike way, but lets show our 'leadership' traits in this fashion!  GOSH!  The grace this man shows must make Jesus beam with joy! (Yes sarcasm!)

This isn't the first time people have called their attention to some of their teachings, and pointed out abusive practices it can create.  Practices they will claim they don't stand behind, but when you see the reaction to this issue?  They stonewall or call out the Koolaid gang that will never show their disloyalty by questioning them.  

Assuming for themselves the divine prerogative of knowing the motives of men’s hearts, they claim that “complementarian” doctrine is “more about power and control than about love or obeying the Word of God” (Associated Baptist Press, July 26, 2010). They demand that such beliefs be renounced and “confessed as sin.”
 I had to giggle at his first sentence!  I mean seriously!  He uses 'divine prerogative' of knowing the motives, and political standing of this group does he not? I know that doesn't count does it?

We are concerned that the issue of wifely submission, promoted so heavily by the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, is more about power and control than about love or obeying the Word of God.

I'm know there are good people that are complementarian, but even they will admit some of the teachings can be taken to far.  The refusal to call out those that distort their teachings?  You can't discuss it with them.  They refuse to even go there, and when a group got together and push this a bit since they refuse?  The Koolaid drinkers come out, and do their darnest to twist what is being brought up.  They are called names, and can't even portray what as written!  People with agendas?  They do that!

They even claim that the “complementarian” view promotes abuse. Cindy Kunsman, one of the speakers at the recent Freedom for Christian Women Coalition conference in Orlando, said, “Many women suffer as a result of the ‘evil woman theology’ perpetuated by CBMW because their sub-Christian view of the nature of women scapegoats women as the root cause of all problems within both marriage and the family.” This is a ridiculous statement. To uphold the Bible’s teaching about women has nothing to do with blaming them as the root cause of problems.

When you take teachings to far?  YES it can promote abuse!  Why not admit it?

If you read enough of their writings they are forever on the feminist rant!  I think some of it we may all agree with, but then other things they bring up?  Its just nonsense.  Its very seriously one sided, and I haven't seen them come up with a label for men that ruin society like they have women.   The feminist portion is just one part, but I wanted to give an example.

In fact, the Bible lays the blame for the fall of the human race on Adam rather than Eve (Romans 5:12). When it comes to the home, God puts the greatest obligation at the feet of the husband and father. He is to love his wife as Christ loves the church, which is the highest standard of compassion conceivable (Ephesians 5:25). He is warned not to provoke his children to wrath but to “bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord” (Ephesians 6:4). To love and nurture is the opposite of abuse. Any man who abuses his wife and children does so in direct rebellion to the Bible and to the “complementarian” teaching based on the Bible.
To me?  This shows lip service.  You want to point out how you disagree with something?  That's fine!  You want to represent a group by not even talking about their points, and instead get defensive?  You want to throw out labels, and name call without even knowing whom is in the group?  That shows agenda.

In time both men and women when they wish to bring up points within this type of circle.  They are going to be driven away, because its clear they refuse to listen.  They stonewall, and place words in your mouth.  They tell you what you believe, and hand you a label.  They will call you out, but you don't call them out.

I know alot of people are going to take this man's word for what is written in the apology instead of just reading for themselves, and stopping to think about the reasons they may have been written.

That is what David Cloud is counting on.  You know what that shows?  Agenda.

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Barbara on 2:41 AM said...

I don't think I will every get passed being surprised at how SHOCKED and SCARED some men are when intelligent women stand up for themselves.

It would be laughable if it weren't so crule

Hannah on 5:05 AM said...

When people can't even place their pride, and in some cases pure arrogance aside to at least listen?

I agree! It is cruel!

Belinda Geiger on 11:33 AM said...

I have had this site posted on my blog www.bagladychat.com for over a year. I was just checking the link to make sure you were still around and found this wonderful article.

I was a battered wife who was trying to be a good Christian. For twelve years. Including seven years after our baby son died of SIDS. Someone had given me a Bible and i read it cover to cover so many times after my son died. It took me all of that time to find the one line that saved our lives (It's in the Old Testament) - If a wife is beaten by her husband she can return to her father's home..

It wasn't much. It didn't absolve my guilt about breaking up the family, but I finally understood that some families really shouldn't stay together. Somebody might die. Children will be forever scarred.

I realize i'm a little off topic, but just wanted to let you know that i'm out there, and hope you will link to my site. Christian wives should know that they aren't required to stay with a batterer. All of the counseling and pamphlets and good intentions in the world will not change those stripes. A batterer will always batter someone. You don't have to be the one.

JaneDoeThreads on 11:51 AM said...

[two post due to word count]

Alright Women, TRUTH time, some experience from a yes FEMINIST who has fought patriarchy-misogyny in some hard core political-misogynist under the guise of 'progressive' platforms...

What did you Expect, seriously, from these folks? I mean, come on that website, all that is missing is Lassie, the Black woman underpaid maid who has to ride the back seat of the bus under Jim Crow laws and the corset, upper pills and martini's from the whole CAMEL....of CBMW and their Octopus tentacles in the mainstream.

Keep hitting at the gnat and you'll miss Every time...it's kind of like this, trying to REFORM this DECADENCE OF RELIGION [MAN'S gods]


You see, you might at first win a few strides, with the help of sadly yes, the ambition whores [those who will ally with you to get into position of power-status-wealth, who will then sell you out as they make concessions with the dogs], the timid who would rather stay 'safe' and live in the CAVE with LOT and eventually will be lead astray or die out completely OR the ones who complain and who WANT their 'freedom' but will LOOK BACK IN NOSTALGIA when the going gets tough or when they don't really want to Experience the exile or losing the comforts even IF they are mixed with pain-violence OR IF they are the root of poison that is destroying millions of other women, such is as LOT's WIFE WHO JUST COULDN'T LET GO, SHE WANTED TO HANG ON EVEN WHEN THE FIRE AND SULFUR WAS COMING DOWN...

eat too much of the poison, the NECTAR OF PHALLIC WORSHIP and like those chocolates you get sick...don't matter how much you work Harder, it's doomed to fail,


the idea of Separatism is terrifying to most women, because internalized misogyny trains us to cling to affirmation like air. Yet true sanctification is the Courage to stand alone, to separate and touch not their unclean thing. Birds tend to stay together, yes, that is why they are Easy prey for the Hawks...especially when the few are wounded,

wolves hunt in packs this way as well.

The EAGLE, stands alone, on the Rock, Earth & Sky,

Jesus said, in the end, where the eagles are there will the carcasses be...



JaneDoeThreads on 11:51 AM said...

the Women in Ministry blog they refer to Dr. Martin Luther King on civil rights and compare the women's rights in Religion with the work of King and supporters, they FORGET HOWEVER

that it wasn't DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING ALONE that changed the civil rights, Contrary to the Myth, it was NOT the hosing of blacks that changed the hard hearts of racist whites, Quite the contrary--

it was the FEAR, sad to say, of those Other groups, who Separated and stood firm, Any Means Necessary, no more Equality if it means Compromise and Concessions and Assimilation...the Entire abolition movement was NOT all diplomacy, there was also the Separatists and the Revolutionaries [the Black Panthers, Puerto Rican Lords, etc] that BROUGHT THE WHITE POWER ON IT'S KNEES...let us Also not forget,
Dr. Martin Luther King became more Revolutionary ESP ON CLASS prior to his assassination--a little FACT that many who Claim to be a supporter of liberation-EMANCIPATION forget,

just as, Malcolm X began to go the other way, of Peace...[after his trip to Mecca]

it took All working, not just one....Gandhi would have NOT succeeded under Stalin or Hitler, they would have Helped him to starve to death and had a laugh all the while,

fighting the patriarchs is like trying to change the GULAG AS A PRISONER

you can't unfreeze Siberia [ice] nor temper the Volcanoes of Iceland with water [fire],

to continue to fight in Their gulag on Their terms, is to stay CAPTIVE...all it succeeds in doing, is further dividing Solidarity among women, strengthening their Solidarity, giving them ample room like any Other COLONIZER to lure the ambition whores to their side, still oppressing them yet pacifying them to where they, the Painted Birds, will then POLICE YOU,

you need Solidarity, you need to be Prepared for Backlash [where and why so many feminist split] and you need to be able, like the Eagle, to be brave, to stand alone, separate, and form a Strong Union of Women...Ministering to Women,

in Exile, if need be....
to those who are brave enough, let them hear and see...

to those who are not, stay on that chocolate assembly line, because no matter what, in the end, they will




Hannah on 3:54 PM said...

Thank you Belinda for stopping by!

What you say is very true. A batterer will stay that way, unless people STOP enabling him. They also need to be serious about getting help, and most of the time it is just surface stuff with motive. Its a hard thing to wrap your mind around, and its something that others truly have a hard time swallowing.

These circumstances are never easy to deal with, and at times there are no good answers. People are better off admitting that part, instead of sprinkling spiritual pixie dust around. Its hard enough for victims to truly own what is happening to them fully at first. Validating their reality is better than treating this serious situation like a common flu. Its hard because some people do 'get better', but sadly most don't. Abuse is their drug of choice, and until people stop to realize that concept? Families will continue to hurt.

Your story is not off topic at all.

Jocelyn Andersen on 5:42 PM said...

Freedom for Christian Women will be issuing a newsletter soon. You can subscribe at the link below:


JaneDoeThreads on 8:52 PM said...

on the name calling [yea this is typical psychological terrorism by men against women--and why I don't support the whole tit for tat kiss ass brown nosing of egal-comp debate clubs--sorry, but that's the gist of it--

some good info from seasoned feminists who are USED to dealing with far worse--read what she has on the left of the blog, under A posts like 'I am not objective' and 'perpetrator mentality',


such as, the right for women to have privacy in rape cases, etc., These women know All the twisted LOGIC PATRIARCHAL MEN USE,

they aren't hostile, assertive yes--sometimes I think We Christian women are indoctrinated to think being assertive is sin--it isn't. Aggressive is one thing, this I have really noticed a lot, maybe due to my years as a secular feminist so take what you can use here...


Hannah on 9:39 AM said...

Yes being 'sweet' isn't being assertive you have a point there!

What amazes me is when you look around the internet you see that no one is talking about the issues brought up, but parroting the talk they have been taught.

Aggression at times comes out when it is response to something that is targeted towards yourself, and yet they tell you to be 'sweet' in response. I love how they follow their own advice.

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