Wednesday, September 30, 2009

Love Dare and the fireproof Abuser

3 comments Posted by Hannah at 7:53 AM

Waneta Dawn recently has been writing a series about the Love Dare movie FIREPROOF, and materials that we have all been hearing about. Waneta Dawn is the author of 'Behind the Hedge'.

The Product Description for her book reads:

Yearning for a warm and loving marriage, Yvette works hard as a housewife and on their Iowa dairy farm to satisfy her husband, Luke, and tries to motivate him to be a loving and caring husband and father. But hidden behind his charming public facade, Luke is critical and demands more submission. With the help of her friend, Delores, Yvette grapples with the meaning and application of Biblical submission to her husband, changes how she relates to her husband, and endeavors to correct the misbeliefs of their teenaged sons, Greg and Kyle. Luke indoctrinates his wife and children on the meaning of submission and obedience. But one day he goes too far. Will their marriage survive the storm? Will Luke become the warm and loving husband Yvette craves? Will their daughter, Tanya, learn to trust her father? And will their sons become loving and respectful young men?

Waneta Dawn grew up on a dairy farm in Kalona, Iowa, and was raised in the Mennonite faith. She currently lives with her daughter and next door to her mother in Iowa. She has researched domestic violence, particularly dominance through verbal, emotional, psychological, and spiritual abuse for over ten years. For two of those years she used curriculum from Duluth, Minnesota to facilitate the Batterer's Education Program, a men's group, which met one evening a week and operated through the Iowa Department of Corrections. Ms Dawn hopes Behind the Hedge will help heal and strengthen relationships to the glory of God.

If you aren't familiar with the Love Dare here is the trailer for the movie. It was called Fire Proof:

You can actually go and see the trailer of the movie if you wish.

Waneta Dawn is doing a series of articles on the movie, and has a very interesting take on them.

Fireproof: Part 1, the Faulty Premise

Fireproof, part 2, Putting Pressure on the Person who has Given Everything

The current one, Fireproof: part 3, The Minimization of Sin really got me thinking.

I think most of us realize this movie was all the rage when it came out, and still to this day is mentioned alot within the church circle.

Waneta Dawn touched on an aspect that truly got me thinking about this movie FireProof, and how people tend to tell the wrong party to do the LOVE DARE with their spouse! Here is a quote from Waneta that got me thinking:

Additionally, this movie tells anyone an abused wife goes to for help, that if she would just do the Love Dare and stick with it, no matter how long it takes, her whole problem would go away. Even worse, they may PRESSURE her to do the love dare and stick with it. If she refuses, they are likely to hold her at arms length, shun her, or even drive her out of their church.

I think people need to realize the premise of the Love Dare is to change - in this case - the man's heart towards God and his marriage. In the movie Caleb is selfish, hard hearted, and pretty much lives 'MY way or the HIGHWAY'! They don't truly go into the relationship to much beforehand, but shows at this point how the wife is to the point of not willing to give anymore. She is DONE! Its OVER! They show hints as to why her attitude has changed, and it doesn't show her as this 'perfect angel' either.

The movie hints to the fact she has given her all, and he flat out rejects her in his treatment of the marriage. We hear all the time about people speaking of the modern "ME ME ME" attitude. I suppose people can try to apply this to her character as well, but then they would be missing the point of what the movie was trying to tell them. The entire focus is NOT on the 'two to tango' or how they are both at fault, etc.

Stepmother fire proof love dare

It deals with a real life couple issue, and its characters doesn't have to be this WALT Disney World type of relationship. In other words, she doesn't have to act like Snow White or Cinderella in order see the sin.

With the Disney themed movies the church at times would ask Cinderella to do the LOVE DARE on the stepmother. The fantasy character at the beginning of that movie showed how she was rejected in the relationship. How Cinderella are now treated as the evil step child.

If they were real world relationships - as in a man and woman - you could clearly see how the Love Dare would be useful to change the heart of the Stepmother in the Disney Film NOT Cinderella. Cinderella already has her heart in the right place in this fantasy. You can clearly understand WHY she don't trust the step family, and for most of us? We would understand its for good reason.

I doubt to many of us are as innocent and perfect as that character. It seems you need to be at times in order for anyone to truly pay attention though. That's sad! lol its also a different aspect of what I want to write about today!

It just seems strange how we can understand the feelings of rejection and NOT trusting of the step family in the Disney films, but can't relate that to real LIFE! How this is magically different once you marry, and we will give you the magically spiritual pixie dust (instead of tinkerbell's) to use for your 'happily ever after' part. We are humans and NOT Disney characters!

cold heart love dare fireproof


Caleb's heart is cold and closed in the movie. He will tell you there is no doubt in his mind he is the victim of this WIFE that won't cooperate. He doesn't give in the marriage, but expects to take!

To God that man needs a heart change! He is NOT living scripture as God instructs in marriage. Caleb was lucky enough to have a father and coworker to get him to drop his victim status for a moment, and try the love dare. His selfish heart shows in his frustration when she doesn't respond the way he wants her to.

He throws his hat in the ring, and gives and gives. He puts her first - so he thinks. She doesn't respond. Her heart is closed due to the past experiences with him. From what I have seen in the church that is the part people don't get. They concentrate on wanting that 'happily ever after' from the Disney films, and go to her and say "HE IS TRYING! How about giving a little back!"

Their focus is on the fantasy part, and not the real world. If you want a true heart change - its NOT dependent on that! Heck it shouldn't even be a factor at ALL at first!

You can't force this process, and yet you see the encouragement to do so WAY to often! You hear abusive people state, "I want to change, but you need to stay and help me!" If they don't say that - the attitude is there. People have a real issue with letting the heart change happen with consequences of rejection, and encouraging them to work HARDER like Caleb did in the movie.

Caleb was allowed to get past his 'anger and resentment' that she wasn't going along with his program...and HELP to work the process! That early attitude clearly showed his attitude of the past was still present. The heart change hasn't happened yet. It wasn't until he was completely broken, and grasped the heart change was for God first did things start to turn around. Strange how the wife at that point actually started to feel it as well.

The concentration wasn't on her to HELP, and give him a chance! The concentration was allowing him to be broken, feel broken, and for God to take the wheel at that point. To live as God would wish him to even if she NEVER responded. Keep treating her as God would ask you to do, because that is what God would want.

We can say WELL the abused person should do that also! Personally? I think his rejection helped in the heart change, and its very much what was needed in this case. Her giving in to soon? That would NOT be to his benefit, and he wouldn't have clearly grasped the concept due to his selfish nature. She had a heart change on her own, and that was AFTER his complete turn around that God wanted for him.

"BENEFIT of the DOUBT" isn't a good choice with this type of attitude. It enables them to NOT work for what God would wish them to. I mean where would the incentive to truly change be? He has it made! I will try a little, and then people will pressure her to DO HER PART! That 'I get to take' attitude doesn't change then does it? No incentive for complete transformation like you saw in the movie.

In most cases STRONG forces of selfishness don't change unless they feel forced to. They want the easy road - they have always had - realizing it will be a different version. You hand it to them, but do they truly get it? TRULY grasp the heart change? No.



I read and hear all the time people asking spouses to concentrate on the GOOD qualities of their spouse to help deal with the pain of abuse. Why? I guess to them it will keep them in the right mindset. It will be easier to receive when their spouse gets around to actually giving. Okay then. To me they are asking you to manipulate yourself into thinking that what isn't there - is clearly there if you just look at it different! WHY they are surprised it doesn't work? Denial I suppose.

Just like all of us we can look and maybe state some GOOD qualities about anyone. That isn't going to change their heart is it? That WON'T bring about the heart change that God would wish all of us to have! He wants us to change our heart no matter what! Do it despite the barriers and obstacles. THAT shows the real heart change, and the pressure to 'pat them on the back' from the one they hurt to early?

We aren't stepping out of the way, and allowing God to do his work!

God wanted to change Caleb completely, and in most cases within the church? We are all guilty of throwing barriers in the way due to our own fears in order to help that along.


Look he is TRYING!

Make sure you MARK that good behavior in your book so you don't forget!

He attempted so you need to respond!

Did you see ANY of those statements in the movie towards her? During most of it you didn't. Did you see people rushing to shame her for NOT responding properly? Caleb tried, but the rest of the characters didn't go there. They allowed the process to happen, but the church in their fear of the "D" word just can't keep their fingers out of it like that.

Can you imagine what Caleb's response would have been if they HAD said some of the things I had mentioned to her? Talk about making him feel justified! Would that have helped him? Hardly!

pixie dust Pictures, Images and Photos


What is sad about the love dare movie to me is that there are alot of people in this world that will REFUSE to go as far as Caleb did. Instead of trying to work with that person - people instead tell the other spouse to NOT lose faith in them instead of stepping up themselves!

Its easier to pressure the abused spouse than it is to keep on top of the frustrated, angry abuser! Personally?

Its very wimpy of them as well!

They are MORE than willing to tell the abused spouse to 'work it' according to their definition, but frankly the commanders aren't willing to 'work it' according to God's!

WHO has the lack of faith?

If you look again at the Disney films it would be quite clear to everyone that changing the step families heart will be the challenge. Its quite clear they are the ones that need the change. It would be God's vision for them don't you think?

When the step parent won't go as far as Caleb did in Fire Proof movie the church goes to Cinderella to tell her to NOT to LOSE faith! YOU work the love dare on them! Its YOUR job! FORGIVE them good enough so you forget about those life lessons living with them, and do it anyway! We are tired of working with the step parent in other words. Someone has to do something, and it won't be the step parent so it has to be YOU!

They would tell Cinderella to give, because then they don't have to! They gave up on the step family, but tell Cinderella that SHE can't!

You hear all the time people blaming divorces on humans refusing to live life with God's will in mind! Its strange how they can't see things from the other direction!

They are good at quoting scripture, but living it? Nope.

When the going gets tough - tell Cinderella to get with the program! Step mother is WAY to hard for us to deal with! She needs to do it! SHE gets to deal with the heart change - we are OUT OF HERE!

To me it seems the Fire Proof movie, and the Love Dare books are more for the party that HURTS others, and those that are willing to keep their feet to the fire.

Much to often do I see people getting lazy, and not willing to help them with the challenge. They want the victim to do their job so they don't have to.

That's not what happened in the movie.

Cinderella might have gave and gave and gave before this wonderful BOOK! It doesn't matter! Do the book Cinderella! DO THE BOOK!

Sigh! People are so clueless!

Thursday, September 24, 2009

Lack of Confrontation is Lack of Leadership!

3 comments Posted by Hannah at 8:57 AM

I have to admit when I was growing up I felt the church was one of the safest places. I also remember when there were issues brewing in my family, and the church was nice about it...but didn't do to much towards that sense of safety I was asking for. This 'be nice' culture does it show lack of leadership? I think at times it can! The fact they ignored me made me feel like I was wrong to wish to have that sense of safety, and is that really what they wanted to do? I don't think that was the case, but they never did confront things either.

Safety foster abuse

I felt like I was to watch from outside the locked gate. Did they wish to have me feel this way? Chances are not! I think the fact my parents were doing SO MUCH for the church at the time they were afraid of the confrontation, and what they may risk losing if they did.

It reminds me of a business situation you see quite often!

In the business world you would have prize salespeople that truly helped the business bottom line. In alot of cases you have the company bending policies and procedures to accommodate them. They give them little extras on the side to keep them happy. To the business? It helps everyone involved. It helps the bottom line, and it helped keep jobs. Some may feel that is the game you play, and some resent the extra work load placed on them due to the game... and keeping this salesperson happy. Keep in mind not ALL businesses are like that, but you do find that atmosphere quite often.

Churches at times will do this when key people are doing things they shouldn't. They think about their bottom line, and how the church will react if they confront it seems like. If we take this stand it may tear the church apart! What confused me? According to the bible I read maybe that is what God is calling for, because he has a different avenue for everyone to follow. The church is quick to remind people that when God closes one door he opens another. That faith doesn't seem to apply when it comes to the politics on how to run the church. Confrontation is very scary, and they fear the repercussions of that.


I was a business leader in our local community for years, and I realize confrontation isn't the easiest thing in the world. I remember knowing we would have to confront things, and was losing sleep over it for days on end. I remember running things threw my head so many different ways to see if there was a different approach. I knew the atmosphere was going to be almost toxic, because you were only allowed to reveal so much about the dynamics behind the scenes. Its NOT a nice place to be! The anxiety levels at times are awful!

confrontation lack of leadership


We had a very charismatic business person that was doing a key job. I was placed in my position, and was to overlook some of his responsibilities.

I had no clue what I was walking into. I found secrets that past business people that dealt with him KNEW, but hid from view due due to not wishing to deal with it. They knew it would be a hornet's nest.

What I felt even more strange? They all moved their businesses out of the area as soon as their time frame for the position was complete.

I found immediately he was a GREAT people person! He was good front man, and everyone just loved him! I liked him as well!

When I got behind the scenes within his position? I found absolute chaos! That chaos slowly started to surface with time.

I started by putting procedures in place, because I felt maybe he just needed a formula to follow. He agreed with the procedures, and felt it was a good idea as well. He claimed he never truly KNEW what people expected from him. I felt I fulfilled part of that for him. He thought it was great, and told me he felt better about his job now.

What ended up happening was you had to PUSH him to follow the plan.

Next I had to gave him a calendar, and told him he needed to account for his time. I told him that people were watching, and were very curious as to what he was doing with his time.

I didn't fully realize right away WHY they were asking, but I soon found out! I remember telling him, "YOU don't have to be anal, but give a general idea of your daily schedule!" I warned him people were watching, so lets hand them this to make them feel better. He couldn't understand WHY they questioned, but was very agreeable to my plan.

He never could really handle the calendar either for some reason. I would have to push and remind him he needed to follow through!

The rest of the business people were all over me about his goals he was blowing! I couldn't figure out any EASIER ways of helping him!

Disorganized workspace confrontation lack of leadership

We finally had to just get a new description together about his job once again. We had to add things like, order office supplies on a timely basis. I asked them to come with me, and we sat down and informed him of what was expected. I figured if the present of others would help enforce it. I was wondering if I wasn't clear enough? He didn't take me seriously? I wanted the bases covered.

That meeting seemed to go well, but I found myself babysitting him once again. The group of business people saw the extent of what I was doing, and we all were growing frustrated. It got to the point we had to issue a first warning for his employment.

He seemed to straighten up a little, and then he mentioned his computer was giving him problems. I had already typed up maintenance procedures, and when to do them. I am talking step by step procedures with pictures!

I found that his virus protection had expired long ago, and he never said a word. We were on dial up at the time, and he said he didn't fool with it because it wouldn't update. He figured the program was broken. I found he never went online to do the update. He never ran the program.

I logged into the internet, and renewed the virus program, and updated the software. Then I did a quick scan, because the computer was acting funny. I found almost 5,000 virus all connected to porn. It totally grossed me out, and I did find a way to fix the computer. The whole time he was telling me he didn't know HOW that got there! I wanted to pop a cork, but I kept my temper in check.

In the business world you have to follow laws. There are procedures you must follow for employees. I went back to the business people after I found porn on his computer, and we felt another warning and a new description of restrictions for his job was needed by law.

We found we didn't have a procedure about porn laid out the way it would be needed by law, and couldn't terminate him due to that lack of documentation. (silly us!)

There were still some supporters among that business group that truly felt he was still an asset due to the community! Everyone loved him, and he was the best thing such sliced bread people said!!

I gave my boundaries as to what I would put up with at that point, and if they couldn't follow certain things they could HAVE the job of supervising him. I wasn't going to pretend things were NOT happening!

Boundary confrontation lack of leadership

I cared for the man, and I knew he was a single parent. I was concerned for him, but to me he wasn't capable of doing this job. I was tired of the excuses and denial. I pretty much had reached my limit, but that human side was nagging me.

NEXT He decided he needed medicine and counseling to help him. He was upfront with me about everything. I just warned him his job was on the line. He had to step up, and his reasons for not doing so? That was running out!

I empathized with him, but things were coming to a head. He needed to do what he could at this point to show everyone he was MORE than willing to change things in drastic ways! Personally? I so did not want to go down that road of termination! It was killing me inside!

Within a month I had to go to his office to get something off his computer. What did I find again? Well I think you know what I found yet again. Ick!

I also found nothing on his calendar, and printed it as well. I found he never followed any of the procedures he was asked to.

I had all kinds of feelings at that point. We had to get that group of business people together yet again, and we voted to terminate his employment. I went with others, and I have to tell you that was one of the hardest things I have EVER had to do!

Afterwards? The press, business owners in town, government, etc were so throw by his termination you can't even imagine the pressure it put us under. We could only give so much information by law as to what had actually happened. It was nasty!

Within weeks his mental condition went downhill, and he was arrested for things which I think his condition played a role with. We were in contact with his family at that point for their help, because he was clearly falling apart. The next thing we knew he was in the state mental hospital.

We made sure his COBRA benefits were taken care of so he still had health benefits, and stayed in contact with his family. It was a hard line to walk, and I know all of us were heartbroken.

Meanwhile the community was wondering if we pushed him to the brink of breakdown. They just couldn't understand WHAT we did to this wonderful, charismatic man that everyone loved. We were bound by law among others things to limit our communication regarding the matter.

His life did turn around with time, and the truth came out as to what we had been dealing with. The business organization changed and thrived with time.

It was a huge change, and a hard road. It was worth it, and it became a organization that people looked up to.


My point? Sometimes you have to do this confrontation, and YES it will eat you up inside at times. Things COULD fall apart at the seams it seems like, but hiding sins behind the scenes is NOT the way to go!

There were the people before me that didn't have the nerve to handle things, and it HAD to make their jobs 10 times harder! They continued to ignore that elephant in the living room! They didn't want to do the confrontation, and to me that was a lack of leadership!

At this point he has a better life, because he got the help he needed. I honestly never saw the meltdown he had coming.

I knew he would struggle emotionally, because this job was EVERYTHING to him! I was concerned about how he would provide for his son as well. We actually had people looking for new employment for him at the time.

It took a long time - years - for things to settle down after that. Heck he got it together before the resentment over his termination had settled down!

He now cares for his son, and has a job that is more fitted for him. He got the help we didn't even see he needed, and some help we KNEW he needed!

What I see is a lack of leadership within churches that refuse to do the same. It was lack of leadership within the business organization that wanted to ignore him. We risked alot because we had to, and churches that won't? I have to wonder about that FAITH they talk about!

Hard? NO DOUBT! We had a man that everyone loved, and defended, and were downright angry with us over! I had the old leadership RUN like the wind, and not tell me what we were dealing with fully. I had parties I think KNEW at the time, but hoped we would just allow it to be swept under the rug. I mean he was POPULAR, and people felt he did WONDERFUL things!

I wonder at times if the church realizes it shows lack of leadership when they refuse to confront things that might get a little messy. God's word says that we should, and to me its red flag if they can't.

If a woman can do They can also!

Monday, September 21, 2009

John Piper - Blinders for Biblical Roles!

8 comments Posted by Hannah at 8:31 AM

blinders for biblical roles

I have question for everyone, and would love to hear from theories.

For some reason I started this huge fire storm with my article about John Piper and how his ignorance is killing children. I have dealt with a number of families, and their children within those families. The children it seems are the silent victims.

There are a number of churches that are truly coming around, and realizing their error when dealing with domestic violence.

I have found in part it was due to them participating with this dynamic within their church. First being relieved at what seemed to be true repentance, but once the hard work to truly allow God to change the mindset of the abuser? All Hell breaks lose, and they quickly found themselves sitting their stunned wondering where that 'true repentance' went!

What happened to the tears and 'I will never do that again?" The 'I want to CHANGE!" It was to overwhelming for the abusers. Just like real life is, and they responded in the way they always do unfortunately.

HOW do you reason with a person that is acting and thinking irrationally?

They got a good TASTE of what this family deals with, and instead of waffling over it they forged ahead. This is by no means easy waters, and its heart breaking.

Cheryl Schatz had an article that I found via Dave Warnock. I have to wonder how John Piper got from point A to point B. The subject it seemed was: do we deny women more opportunities than the Bible denies them?

I dealt with a couple one time. They were sitting in front of me, and she said, “He learned from you that I have to get permission from him for everything I do.” I said, “Really? Like what?” And she said, “To go to the bathroom! He won’t let me leave the room without his permission. If I get up and walk out of the room, he says, ‘Hey, you’re supposed to ask me first.’”

That’s not because the man values complementarianism. That’s not complementarianism. That’s sick! So we do deny women things that we shouldn’t deny them, if we’re sick.

Now the person asking this question is probably not going there. They’re probably thinking, “In the church, what kinds of ministries might a woman do?”
I had to giggle. YEP a women that has a husband that demands she ask permission to go the bathroom (which he recognizes as sick) is thinking, "What kind of ministries might a woman do?" (Shakes head) I think I can safely say that is the LAST thing on her mind! I think most would have him address the man's sick nature, and deal with ministry later don't you?

Why he would think ministries at this point would be her first priority when she brings up a sick situation like that? If she seriously was using that as an example, then why didn't he mention there is other work to do here besides what she was asking? I mean would either of them be qualified for ministry at this point? I'm sure the person that ASKED the question may NOT be the person in the example, but the example he gave? That is ONE as to WHY they do ask about this! On a side note? Strange example to use for this lesson I have to say. It shows the blinders as to how he won't deal with the sick portion, but goes on about roles of women in ministry. THAT makes it even stranger!


If the victim is separated at this point the church has a better chance of helping this family.

Why do I say that?

Abusers get scared when they are called out - no matter HOW nicely - and they will refuse to return to the church that they say 'claims' to want to help (physically or emotionally). They want to hide their sin in the darkness, and they will use force to keep it there.

Its like Chris Brown, and how he feels the people that are upset at what he has done are just 'haters'. They don't take his 'change' at face value, and he just LUMPS everyone together as those that don't like him anyway. He doesn't need to explain himself. You take what he says at face value, or you are the enemy or 'hater'.

Abusive people do actually believe this - its a coping mechanism for them.

If the couple is together, and he gets uncomfortable with something when help arrives?

You have a better chance of seeing that family LEAVE the church. He will do things to isolate the family from that help. In his broken state you are a threat to his authority!

I think we all realize that type of authority may not be what John Piper's church is thinking, but this is what he is hearing sadly. Its like the 'sick' man he speaks of. The example he gave the man he speaks of clearly didn't grasp it did he? Yet he goes on to speak of roles in ministry?!?!

The sick man will rebel if someone is actually STRONG enough to go into details regarding the sick mindset. The abusive person's anxiety level will go up, and feel attacked...and if they are NOT separated?

The family will either stop going to that church all together, or find another place to worship that doesn't 'hate on him'. You see how he tries to avoid his accountability? Its to much for him to bear!

Most of the time when he does stay? Its because the church supports his side of the story hook, line and sinker. In the example above? He will stay because the pastor thinks she is more questioning her role in ministry.

He will do this separation (or a better word is isolate them) from others in all kinds of situations he sees as a threat. It could be friends that see the dangerous dynamic, family who see it, neighbors, etc. If they feel victims are getting support at their job, organization they volunteer at. They will slowly isolate them from the support. THAT includes threats that the children may bring into the dynamic as well.

Remember evil likes to hide in the darkness!

The abuser may not be totally evil, but he does have a root of evil within him. What the bible say about that root? They prefer that to stay in the darkness. GOSH wonder why that would be huh?


One aspect for her enduring is truthfully what? Fear. That is the reason BEFORE you knew about the behavior or asked about it. The chances of this being a first time isn't very likely.

One aspect of WHY you want her to flee besides safety? Chances are VERY good the next day he will find ways of talking her OUT of calling the church! He will weep and be mournful, or plain use intimidation to make her silent. Remember the motive of evil - keep it in the darkness.

Another aspect that people can't grasp for some reason for their reason for enduring before they tell the church - they want an intact family. YES she does want the same thing YOU DO, but are you going to help that FEAR she feels regarding him go away?

The 'wanting of a intact family' kind of slaps the theories of how they are listening to ugly supporters that just want to break up families huh?

It doesn't fit the 'making excuses so they can leave' crowd either.

Fear at times keeps them there, and fear is normally the reason they want to flee.

The blinders on the biblical roles is a sense of confusion when you get mixed messages on what to do with that fear.

She is only getting HURT, and it is not sin if she endures his wrath for a season.

Its much more than HURT. Take the blinders off and see the real reality. I would assume with most people if you are being verbally and physically attacked by a stranger you would be more than HURT wouldn't you? Now look at the situation again - this is the person that is your spouse! Its MUCH more than HURT!

You hear churches speak on how are to speak out against sin, but then you are told to endure it first.


The ROLES within the marriage is why! That is confusing because of the contradiction!

You are told you don't understand the word of GOD, and those ROLES that were God ordained, etc.

That's not answer - its a diversion!

Why do they get so many questions about submission? They tend to contradict themselves to much.

The blinders on roles seem to help them THINK it should make sense to them and the rest of the world.

They have the parrot talk for those that don't agree. YOU don't know the WORD OF GOD! No. You don't have ears to hear! You completely MISSED your opportunity to address SICK behavior, and used blinders to talk about women in ministry!



The children in most cases love both of their parents. That doesn't change when separation happens, but there is alot of confusion for them. I'm sure people will point out all kinds of reports about that. How about we look further inside the world of the children.

They don't have to be told what the abuser is capable of. In more cases than not if they feel safe enough - they will tell you.

When they don't feel safe? They will leave you small hints here and there.

Alot of times they are scared to say to much because they know they will feel the wrath of the abuser when they find out. Loyalty to them is safer than speaking out. Look at history it happens with adults as well! Its safer to go along with the 'authority' in their life, and say they are on their side than to step out and risk the wrath. They have fear as well.

Slamming the victim at times they know will give them a reward when visitation times comes. Speaking OUT against the abuser will hand them wrath. You can't stop visitation legally, or refuse it in most cases. Supervised visitation is not easy to get either if that was the next suggestion. Those may not do much for the fear anyway.


There are times where there is out right denial, and they are no different than alot of others. We see that in Chris Brown's mother, and you might see that in others that deny alcohol or drug issues with a family member.

Those in denial get MAD when you poke holes in their world. Why is that? FEAR!

The children want to love both parents, and they care for both parents. That would be quite normal!

What do you do when one hurts you for their own personal reasons, and it has nothing to do with discipline for example. They see this person raging in their home over a cup left out, or they witness belittling, mocking, name calling, and just plain contempt? They might see items thrown, walls punched, doors kicked in, or screams of pain from their other parent in a different room. They might see the man REMIND her she is to ask permission EVEN to go to the bathroom!

They have a different kind of fear. Its on a childlike level, and we are missing helping when we only see ROLES for their parents!

People don't stop to think of the children's worlds when they use 'roles' as excuse to NOT see bad advice out of ignorance.

You are telling those children that the abuser's world is the safer one, and WHY would you wish to give them that impression?

Think about that for a moment. Remember as John Piper stated - its SICK!



You know WHY I wrote the John Piper article, and placed my focus upon the children's viewpoint? I see the blinders on when it comes to roles. If we can GET the focus off the biblical roles for a moment, maybe someone can see the cruel world that the children are forced to deal with.

You know what happened with the comments? It was diverted back to roles of the men and women. We were told we don't UNDERSTAND God's word, and we need to stop right there to think about that.

How John Piper is a nice man, and he studies the word of God. How is a good preacher and friend.

That has nothing to with anything.

I'm sure he is nice, and all the rest. Does that mean he can't have a blind spot? He can't possibility have that debit at all? That's nonsense! Drop the blinders and hear what people are saying - you have a blind spot if all you can think of is biblical ROLES in marriage!

You can have your ROLES, and see the truth at the same time. It doesn't change ANYTHING! Its not a THREAT to any ROLE!

Why is it being taken like it is?

What they can't seem to grasp is their contradictions in the teachings.

John Piper has written, and you can see videos on how women are to submit to their husbands...they submit unless they are asked to sin.

I think most people would agree about NOT submitting to sin part as the exception.

The reason he is asked questions all the time about submission is his contradictions to that statement.

Now that's one kind of situation. Just a word on the other kind. If it's not requiring her to sin but simply hurting her, then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season, and she endures perhaps being smacked one night, and then she seeks help from the church.

If people are told of a story of someone raging at them, and hitting them most would have no problem with telling that person to find a way to safety.

When you have a wife in the picture? Its just hurting her - God's daughter - and she is not required to sin if she endures this.

Why is it sin (or not recommended or given as counsel) to find a way to safety in her case? Why is avoiding the hurt by the sinning party making her sin?

That has nothing to do with roles, and has everything to do with 'that makes no sense AT ALL!'

If a stranger was doing this to her in the presence of her children? Does she not find a way to safety, and ask for help - or is that sin as well and she should endure that and seek help from the church?

Is it only her ROLE to endure that from her husband? Why?

Take the blinders off and SEE how that doesn't make any sense!

In Matthew 25:14-30 the servant buried the masters money - did nothing with it - and returned it to him upon his return.

Notice, the servant did not do any outright evil, such as stealing the money, but then neither did he do anything good. He did nothing and he got nothing good accomplished. His Lord condemned him as a "wicked and slothful servant".

If John Piper is not concerned about HER finding a way to safety, and would feel it is a sin if she does not endure this?

What about the children? What GOOD is she doing allowing them to live with that dynamic? Is that a true aspect of the protection of children that God calls for?

Get off your biblical roles for a moment and THINK about that aspect!

Ephesians 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10and find out what pleases the Lord. 11Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:
"Wake up, O sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you."

Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness. Hmmm. It doesn't say endure it does it? How would you have 'nothing' to do with it? Does standing there and enduring it look like 'having nothing to do with it'? Does enduring it RATHER EXPOSE THEM fit the scripture? No.

One who is silent when there are those around him in sin becomes a partaker with them (Eph. 5:7).

Jesus warned "He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad" (Mt. 12:30).

In the fight against evil there is no middle ground, no gray area, no neutrality . Those who are not actively and vigorously working and fighting against evil are helping evil to triumph.

When good men do nothing, they are no longer good.

Many have the mistaken notion that good is merely the absence of doing that which is wrong. Not so!

One is good not merely because he does no evil, but because he is actively working for what is good. "Let him eschew evil, and do good" (1 Pet. 3:11). James explained, "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin" (Jas. 4:17).

Do not allow evil to triumph. Do not do nothing. Stand up and be counted, speak up against evil and speak out against evil men and their sinful deeds.

You do not do that by enduring the sin, and calling the church AFTER it is over because John Piper told you that is how it is to be done. It goes against God's word!

I honestly don't think John Piper, and his followers that posted about 'roles' in the face of children in danger - STOPPED long enough to study themselves! Don't tell others they didn't study the word of God well enough, and maybe we should HUSH!

You see if you take the blinders off, and look at the bible it does speak about resisting evil - not enduring it for a season. You can get to safety - you TAKE that opportunity! You enlist HELP!

Take advantage of the victims fleeing due to fear! Support them! Protect THEM! Don't tell them to ENDURE for that evening or a season!

Take the blinders off - it has nothing to do with ROLES! It has to do with GOD'S WORD! Take off the rose colored glasses, and DEAL WITH THIS! When someone mentions her husband commands that she ask permission to leave the room to go to the bathroom? How about we go further than mentioning its sick! We don't need to deal with roles of woman in ministry at that point! We need to address the SICK behavior!

WHY is that so hard to understand?

Thursday, September 17, 2009

TOOLS for change! Who is ready?

0 comments Posted by Hannah at 12:24 PM

TOOLS for Change

I was reading a story of a women recently, and how she is dealing with the guilt of never telling her father she loved him before he passed away. The dynamics of her childhood were not of a kisses and loads of hugs atmosphere.

If I were guessing there was a true lack of that, and that to a child is a sense of comfort. We all know some people just aren't capable of it for some reason, but it sounds like this and other dynamics caused distance between her and father during her childhood.

It sounds in part like a familiar story of a young girl rebelling, and finding herself abused, abandoned, and pregnant.

She was struggling at this point, and trying to get her life back on track. The distanced relationship with her father changed one day with a phone call. He wanted to help, and first and foremost? He wanted to babysit that grandchild, and wanted HER to go out and do something for herself. She needed a break, and he clearly saw that. It was the start of their rebuilding, renewing, and improving on that relationship of the past.

Tragically, her father had a car accident and later died from his injuries.

I never told him I love him. I had thirty days of being with him in that hospital and could never bring myself to tell him those three simple little words. Its been 14 years now and I still cry over it. How can a child not tell their own father who was dying that they loved him. Regardless of if he knew it or not, I never said those words and i cannot forgive myself. I cannot move on. I cannot let go. I need to tell him. I go to his graveside and tell him, but it doesnt help. I ask Jesus to relay the message, but it doesnt help. How do I forgive myself and move on? I cannot handle this anymore. I have to tell him!!!!

The love between them was clearly demonstrated, and YES people did mention she needs to forgive herself most of all! Her father knew, and even if words were not spoken he knows! It sounded alot like a prodigal son type of story! The story had a twist in this case!

He wasn't one that told her he loved her either, and his behavior at times in childhood sounds like alot of anger.

You could see the tools he had that may not have been healthy, and passed those tools onto his child.

I don't think she saw it, but we could all see it in what she said.

He pushed her to hard, and expected more than what she was capable of - in turn as adult she was never satisfied with her achievements. It wasn't PERFECT!

She opened up all the cans of worms of her sins after he passed away, and then wondered if her father was alive if he would have saved her those sins by his strictness.

Later on realized it was her own immaturity. It was the cartwheels of life you see either with yourself or others as you travel along that road of life.

Her guilt she knew was hindering her relationship with God as well. She was also starting to realize that the tools of her past play a part in her decisions, feelings, and patterns in her life.

She wanted to know how to change those tools - how could she change?

WHERE does she begin!

She received the, "Jesus will heal you" type of responses.

I KNEW she had just stepped on a landmine, and I'm SURE her mind was swimming! She had a hint, but wasn't sure YET about the tools of change.

BEING myself I just couldn't hold back at that point! LOL!

confused? tools of change

You can learn those tools! I did! I was a very frighten, lonely, and was abused in alot of ways as a child. I didn't know this fully at the time, but I figured it out later in life.

My parents didn't have the tools to deal with certain things the way they needed to, and I did suffer for that.

REMEMBER!!! You do the best you can with the tools you have available at the time.

My folks didn't have tools, and I can't blame them for that. It is what it is!

I had a warped way of viewing the world and the people within it due to that.

I had a different way of dealing with my faith due to that.

I'm sure some of the items I will struggle with all my life.

I didn't realize I was any different than anyone else. I was told I was a strong person, and yet I knew that was a role I played because I felt I had to. It was a way to stay safe.

I honestly thought everyone knew that, and other 'strong' people did the same thing!

Those were my tools at the time. I played a good role for a long time! No one knew about the abuse in my home, because I tried to reach out a couple of times and was ignored. I tried to confront and was belittled and shamed. You see everyone liked the role my folks were playing, and didn't want to go there. Between those parties (including the church) and the rest of the family - I learned real quick you need to hush and stay that way.

I was a child, and those tools came with me into adulthood.

I knew I wasn't strong enough to take them all on - or at least I didn't feel that way - and I just worked on my armor instead.

It was the only protective shield I had. I remember these LONG conversations with God as a child about this. I didn't blame him for NOT changing things, because I figured there must be SOME reason for it!

God was my only comfort then, and in his arms I did feel loved, understood, and had someone on my side.

I grew up, and was college educated, community oriented, successful in business, and well liked and respected by others. I still had my role, and it seemed to be working.

My personal life? WELL I was pretty much groomed in a way that didn't show me GREAT tools in that area! I figured out the game on how to make things look great on the outside, but I had no tools for a good intimate relationships.

The clues and the red flags? They were what I grew up with, and didn't have a clue on how to deal with them. I had already learned from the poundings I got as a child, and I was very scared and shamed about asking to many questions or commenting.

I was used to people telling me - what did you DO?!?! NO matter what happened!

It would be my performance that would bring good things, and a shamed based learning came if I didn't follow the formula.

I found myself in trouble (my marriage), and for the first time in my life? I realized I was abused.

Can you imagine? Figuring that out so late in the game? What did I do AFTER I got past the stage of trying to deny it? lol and believe me that was a battle in itself! HUGE BATTLE I mean WHO in their right mind would want to OWN that???

Next came that I shamed myself into thinking I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN! How could I be so STUPID! What in heaven's name was I thinking!

You know what didn't help? Statements like,

"If people go into relationships with red flags what do they expect would happen?"

"Why don't they just leave!"

"Maybe if you just got right with yourself, and showed them love and respect they wouldn't do that to you!"

Those were not only humiliating, made me feel more shame, but were down right confusing. It sent me SPINNING for years!

When you don't have the right tools? Its pretty easy to take those statements, and really bury yourself in a hole. You don't have a healthy sense of self worth as it is, and it made me feel like it was all my fault all over again. They can't help because its my fault.

My childhood nightmares coming true all over again! People expect you at times I think to have tools they take for granted, and I seem to think that is part of the blind spot.

I never cried.

It wasn't a part of the armor I was comfortable showing. It gave me a great sense of shame even doing it privately.

I learned the deal is you have to learn. Things implode on you worse if you can't find a way to get past that. I think a sense of true depression for me?

It was due to me NOT having the tools for outlet of feelings, and those energies within turned against me and worked their destruction.

I thought only certain feelings were allowed to be surfaced, and you will pay for the rest. HOW wrong was I!

My father's death taught me how to cry. It was weeks after his death, and I was in the shower. No one was home, and just WENT with the urge! I wailed in agony! I was so exhausted I dragged myself to my bed. I told God I felt alone, and Daddy left me and was everyone going leave me? I swear I felt him wrapping his arms around me, and saying, "I will never leave you!" It soothed me enough that I fell asleep.

I found after that experience its much easier for me cry, and I tried my darnest NOT to fight it. It makes me human. If people say it is weak? I learned that is their issue, because I want to be human! If that makes sense!

pressure cooker Pictures, Images and Photos

I got help for my issues in a safe environment that didn't push or place pressure on me. It took years to come out of the fog that was my life! I practiced and acquired new tools.

Tools that others take for granted, and I'm proud to own now.

I dealt with an anger stage as well, and you know what? I think I needed it!

I was like a pressure cooker that only allowed little spits of steam to surface all my life.

It was nice and cleansing to get that toxin out of my system! It wasn't pretty either!

Its released now, and I get to start fresh!

I think that part of the healing others don't understand. That's fine - in some ways I'm glad they don't! That means they don't have the pain I did! I don't think I can explain it any better than that!

You can learn to cry and you can learn new tools. Its an awesome journey, but it isn't instant for everyone! I hear stories about how they just laid it on out, and the next day the sun came and shined all over them! LOL That's great, but the journey worked for me!

I was right. God had me deal with things for a reason. HEY maybe I was a smart KID afterall!

When my father died I wanted to tell him things on his deathbed. Dad was one that had anxiety attacks, and he was terminal. It was just a matter of time that day. I was afraid that what I said would make him worry instead of letting go.

I asked God to pass along the message. I have no doubt he did! Don't beat yourself UP over this! Its not worth it!

You need to let go, and allow God to show you those new tools he wishes you to have. Those are MUCH better than the pain you are keeping...believe me!

the tools of change

I guess the word TOOL made her realize things. She is going to go and find those tools, and I pray that she does find them!

Abusive people and their victims lack the tools for life. People think they have tools that most people have, and don't stop to think maybe there is a link there! Why? Because we don't! It could be for ALL kinds of reasons!

Submitting more and trying to be a better wife? Finding ways to respect and love my husband?

I learned to submit due to fear from childhood. Telling me you don't do that didn't compute. I didn't have the tools to grasp the meaning of that.

My submitting made an angry man feel more entitled to take it a step further.

He didn't have the tools to realize that loving and sacrificing wasn't a sign of weakness. He needed the power over, and the AUTHORITY they teach? That was an awesome tool, but he couldn't grasp that wasn't what was being told to him.

The sugar sweet messages on HOW to approach husbands when you are unhappy? Those are a sign of weakness to an abuser, and he will take advantage of that. Why? That is what they do! Matter of fact they will rub your nose in the sugar sweet! They have NO GRASP on the tool of its intention!

Fixing one portion of the toolbox - the marriage - isn't going to bring restoration. Learning those tools is hard work, and it takes a commitment! I see so often these stories of seeing the sin, and the next thing you know this HUGE miracle happens...and they are transformed. I won't say that can't happen, but in most cases the journey for the tools is beneficial for the individuals. Could be why we don't see those instant transformations as often as people would like.

You can't do anything if you don't have the tools to make it happen. Don't shame yourself over the tools you didn't have in the past! That would be silly! Acknowledging tools that you need to acquire? Working for those? Those bring the change within you that God wants. TOOLS for change...Now who is ready?

Tuesday, September 15, 2009

Submissive Wife? Sacrificing Husband??

9 comments Posted by Hannah at 4:47 PM

submissive wife

Over at Reflections of a Mirror blog was a man that did a piece call the The Submissive Wife? I had to giggle because his introduction the article included making sure you paid attention the question mark at the end of the title, "The Submissive wife???"

He did poke fun at some that believe that Ephesians 5:22 seems to be the only sentence with any true meaning in that entire passage. We have all heard it ourselves - Wifes Submit to your husbands! I could tell he was off to a good start with a bit of sarcasm:

There you have it, wives- do whatever your husband says. Guys, wouldn’t that be awesome? To have slaves that have to do what we tell them to do? I mean, how incredibly boring would that be? Never fight, never argue, never have a complicated discussion. Never be interrupted while the NFL is on. Never have to worry about her feelings or her opinions. Never wonder if she will make you breakfast, lunch and dinner, because, well, she has too right? It’s in the Bible.

(giggles) I loved that!

There’s a lot more in that passage than a submissive wife. First, we are told to submit to each other out of reverence for Christ. Out of a Holy respect for Jesus, we should not rule each other, no one should seek to dominate the other. We should both give ourselves to each other. Later in the passage it says the two become one, which is a great mystery. I can’t fathom the depth of this but I believe this ties in with the first verse telling us to submit to each other. We are both on equal footing with God. Neither is higher and neither is lower. Equality before God.

Ah yes - the GREAT mystery! What is a mystery to me is that people don't try to slow down, and read the entire passage?! I don't think he is the only that struggles with the depth of this passage, and there are a few of us (me included).

I don't know how many articles, forum questions, etc I have come upon that questioned how far do you let your husband go? How far do you bend? To me they need to sit down, and truly look at what is being asked of them. I mean some things in life are worth bending a bit, and others? They just AREN'T! Something is wrong if you are questioning things.

The message you get from alot of women is SUBMIT to EVERYTHING, and use this as a hammer to hit you with.

I had to giggle at one quick article questioning if she needed to submit to husband's wishes, and give her son his first haircut. She loved his curls, and wasn't ready for the big boy look! I'm not so sure that was a case of submitting myself. It seemed like a compromise and decision - she did bend. She still thinks he is cute, and I figure she still has those pictures she posted. I don't know, but that just didn't seem like submitting to me. Its just part a relationship.

Then you have the extreme we tend to heard about here when people encourage women to submit to domestic violence. It clearly goes against the rest of the passage that others don't seem to read.

Its strange to me, because you hear about how men are wired to lead. They are the take charge type of gender, and aggression is just with them! Don't make them feel threaten, and don't question them. Why? That wouldn't show honor and respect - know your place SUBMIT!

Then you have the other side of the coin. Loads of articles, books, threads on forums, etc all about how it is hard to submit. God I guess didn't wire us the way he did men for some reason. We have to work our part, and well the men? They pretty much don't if you believe the JUNK they put out there!

sacrificing husband

Now that we have established that neither one should dominate the other lets dissect the submissive wife part. This act of submission is voluntary. The wife does not have to submit, she can refuse. Also, submitting does not imply becoming a slave. You do not give up your rights when you submit although you do allow someone else to lead you. We do this all the time. We submit to God, we submit to bosses at work. We submit to teachers in school. We submit daily to others. But, when that person abuses that submission, we have the right to stop submitting.

I also want to look further in this passage to gain some perspective on submission, in the last verse after the last comma is a phrase that I think puts a new light on this issue, “and the wife must respect her husband.” All of this submitting stuff is done out of respect. But respect is earned. Respect is only kept when the husband is worthy of respect. Why is that so hard to understand? Men, if we earn and keep our wives respect she will not have nearly as hard a time allowing us to lead in our relationship.

Is he saying we might be 'wired' as well? OH MY GOODNESS! What a thought he has there! Respect of the role is earned by treating and loving your wife as Christ would have you do. YEP - it may take some effort on his part! Pretty cool concept huh? NOW that just might WORK! (Yes my sarcasm this time!)

Scenario time. You, your husband and your 9 month old child are in a gas station and a guy with a gun comes in to the store and starts making threats. He aims the gun at you and the baby. Do you a) want your husband to let you take the leadership role and take a bullet or do you b) want him to lead and protect his wife and child by throwing himself in front of the guy with the gun? I think in your heart of hearts at that moment you would want the man in your life to stand up and be a man and protect his family at any cost. And men, if you aren’t willing to do that, how can you honestly expect her to respect you and allow you to lead.

Ladies, if your man is worthy, let him lead. Don’t follow blindly, but don’t destroy him when he makes a mistake.

I think we can all agree you don't destroy people for making mistakes. An abusive person does the destroying most of the time when mistakes happen - or just LIFE in general happens. That doesn't earn love and respect does it?

I can hear it now! SOMEONE HAS TO BE IN CHARGE! When you approach a relationship like that is that respectful? It seems to me it gives a sense of 'seeking to dominate the other'. Its the spirit behind that comment that truly bothers me. Shawn I felt did a good job on the other side of this coin. The Sacrificing Husband! Matter of fact I enjoyed his whole series called, "The Marriage Conundrum"

Give a read, and tell me what you think!

Friday, September 11, 2009

Chris Brown I'm NOT a monster!

2 comments Posted by Hannah at 11:38 AM

This is last part regarding the interview with Larry King and Chris Brown.

I'm pointing out the traits of the abuser, and how they act when they get caught abusing!

If you would like to see the other parts of the series:

Part One Chris Brown, Mom and Denial...

Part Two Chris Brown Abuse NEVER happened before!

Part Three Chris Brown - We are FRIENDS now

Chris Brown's demeanor changed a bit at the beginning of this portion of the interview.

He claims he still loves her at the beginning of the interview. I have no doubt he does still love her in his own way. He hasn't got the help he needs to recognize a healthy type of love yet.

I think most anyone would feel sorrow once a person they love moves on to a new relationship. He won't be stalking her to much with the media following him. You can bet the minute she gets hot and heavy with someone else it will fuel the media once again. Sigh. I think that is the nature of the beast.

He may not be in a relationship at this point, but you can't tell me he doesn't accept the attention of other ladies.

Abusers do know how to play that part of the game as well.

They will tell the new woman the lines he knows will work, and concentrate on telling her how much more lovely she is compared to you know WHO! WELL at least until she ticks him off, and then the comparisons will go into another direction.

Abusers also like to tell the victim they don't LOVE them like they LOVED YOU! AGAIN until she ticks him off, and then he will announce how this other person is so much better for them.

The 'changed' part? The motive is there, and no change is present. There are people that will see this, but victims that are broken and used to the cycle don't always see it. It hurts when you point it out, but it helps them see the reality of things as well.



Yeah, I’m tellin’ you. We not, we not. And I don’t do all this talkin’ on the thing, this just some new stuff I’m doin’, I wanna say what up. ‘Cause I ain’t been out there in a minute. But. New album gonna be comin’ soon. We workin’ on that right now. It’s called Graffiti, got everything on it, know what I’m sayin’? So y’all be ready for that. I’m about to drop a single this summer for y’all, so. We ain’t goin’ nowhere. Everybody that hate us, they just been haters. All my real fans, I love y’all. I ain’t a monster.

As I mentioned in the prior article he isn't going to attempt to sway those that may accept what happened, and doubt his sincerity of his apology when you act like this.

Its easier to say, "Everyone that hate us, they just been haters!" He refuses to acknowledge in any REAL terms why people may be upset with him! You hold on to the upset - you are JUST HATERS!

There truly is no REAL vulnerability. They just can't do that when they are that broken. That is NOT to say it can never happen, but at this point? You aren't going to see it. Its much easier to accept that people just lie, and never liked him to begin with, etc.

GRANTED there are THOSE of course! His cocky demeanor and arrogance that is spilling all over the place isn't going to do much for his case. The fact that his support system is MORE than willing to participate in this video? They are okay with him not having to be vulnerable, sincere, and accept his lumps as well.

He might have been VERY angry at the bloggers, but again his lack of self control? His lack of impulse control? WOW I guess it happened a second time now. What Rhianna's actions were 10 times worse than the bloggers now?


You know WHO his real friends are at this point? The ones that allowed themselves to take what he says and accept it hook, line and sinker. Those are the TRUE friends! He doesn't like the supporters of Rhianna especially if they got to vocal.

For interviews he may say he understands, and is okay with it. His demeanor and the fact he keeps coming back to that? How if you don't accept him you are just haters? That's part of the abusers black and white world. There are those that will think he is a monster, and will hate him forever and NEVER allow the sincere, humble nature when he does get real. Chris Brown isn't there yet. He isn't anywhere close to that.

abuser Chris Brown I am not a monster

Part of the acceptance is admitting that some people do have a reason to 'hate' as he puts it. They do have reason to be mad! They do have reasons to question his sincerity. Some may waffle back and forth, some may accept things and be okay with it, and some may hate him until the day he dies.

The fact he is only okay with the one group - his supporters 100% of the time? The TRUE fans? Its shows the nature of the abuser. He loves that he can have some sense of control over them. The rest of them? Contempt. You either you understand my side 100% or you are the enemy! That's clue one they are crawling back into their abuser world. There is no humble nature over the sin he has committed.

The monster within him is still there. I hope he does get help with the monster, because he is kidding himself if he thinks that part of him will never surface again. He may not be a monster all the time, but there is a monster under the surface. If he wants help he needs to accept that.

Part One Chris Brown, Mom and Denial...

Part Two Chris Brown Abuse NEVER happened before!

Part Three Chris Brown - We are FRIENDS now

Thursday, September 10, 2009

Chris Brown - We are FRIENDS now

0 comments Posted by Hannah at 11:44 AM

We are going to take a look at part four of the Larry King interview with Chris Brown. This is part three of our series WE are FRIENDS now!

Part One Chris Brown, Mom and Denial...

Part Two Chris Brown Abuse NEVER happened before!

Part Four Chris Brown I'm NOT a monster!

He mentions how when they went to his friend's house after the domestic violence situation it wasn't to 'rekindle the relationship', but to build the 'friendship' back up. It was like Romeo and Juliet trying to get together as they were kept apart. Huh?

How many healthy people in the world would wish to rekindle their friendship after someone beats the living snot out of them...and NOT talk about what happened during that time? How they are just there to 'relax', and just be friends. LOL How you just get together JUST for that, and not feel just a bit awkward? He claims it wasn't at all! Reasonable people would feel awkward don't you think?


She never asked WHY he beat her up, and he never mentioned it due to him 'not remembering it'. He claims they didn't want the pressure of that conversation! They just wanted to relax, and what?? lol play like nothing ever happened?

People that are abusive that realize there is a chance they can't get the relationship back on track to where they want it will attempt the 'can we be friends?"

Part of relationships is resolution after disagreements.

He beat her up, and yet he claims she never asked him WHY he hurt her? I guess he never felt the need to tell her either.

Part of the reason you don't go into these parts of discussions with abusers is they get very defensive. That's to close for comfort for them, and when you think about it ... it isn't a communication problem at all. Its a resolution one!

They don't wish to go into detail, and if they said they were sorry don't push it.

If you decide you can't be friends? WELL you can't forgive and all you want to do is hate! THEY will of course forgive you as many times as possible, but since you are unable you will be the problem.

It goes back to you need to own part of the issue I hit you to begin with. If you aren't going to be my lover you need to be my friend! If you can't be my friend...they will TURN on you!


There is always a sense of urgency. You can't have time to think about it. To the abuser there is nothing to think about. YOU must decide instantly or they have made up their minds about you.

ill change urgent

Abusers don't like that wiggle room, because its easier to break you down if you give in to the sense of urgency. They can also point out how you can't be all that sincere about the 'friend' part if question anything in the future. Its a tool they use to get you back, and they can STILL have some sense of control.

They can't do this 'change' without YOU! The real reason? They don't want to, and they WON'T if you don't give in to them in many cases. They aren't doing it to better themselves they are doing it so you will mellow out! They can show the world they are doing something, and I'm a nice guy since she will be my FRIEND see?

If you don't help there are threats of maybe 'killing themselves' or hurting others. The threats come out about how they will TAKE everything from you, and spread falsehoods about you. They will take you court over everything, and threaten to get custody of the children.

You do it their way and be friends...or you will pay the consequences! That is a very REAL dynamic, and if you don't have a good support system? All kinds of things will happen. They could go back due to fear, or play the REAL dance of that REAL abuser!


Chris Brown thinks there is nothing WRONG with him, because he just made a mistake. He can 'change'. Why do you 'change' if nothing is wrong with you?

You can see clearly he doesn't wish to OWN that root within him that can be downright evil! That doesn't MEAN you are 100% evil - it means you have a part of you that can be!

You can't change anything if you can't OWN that about yourself! Think about it! Does a person that has a addiction NOT admit they are addicted and 'change' despite the fact they won't admit it? Can a person that gets 10 speeding tickets NOT admit he drives to fast?

I will give the man credit that he WANTS to learn about himself, and LEARN different ways to react to things. He wants to become a 'REAL' man as he worded it! I pray that he does! He has alot of work to do!

What doesn't help? His mother can't place any pieces together at all. Her denial isn't going to help his healing. She had to see things as well, and in real life like you and I live in? That person is going to help make OUR lifes miserable. You can't help yourself or anyone else if you can't admit things.

Can you truly be friends? Can you say it would be a safe thing to do at this point? They truly don't have the tools to do that, and victims normally can't deal with that in a healthy manner either. Resolution can bring healing, but what if that person is incapable...but insists on friendship? Do you seriously think that can be rock solid? If so FRIENDS who are we really kidding!

Part One Chris Brown, Mom and Denial...

Part Two Chris Brown Abuse NEVER happened before!

Part Four Chris Brown I'm NOT a monster!

Wednesday, September 09, 2009

Chris Brown - Mindset of Domestic Violence

0 comments Posted by Hannah at 12:11 PM

I was asked to put the series in one post for people.

Part One Chris Brown, Mom and Denial...

Part Two Chris Brown Abuse NEVER happened before!

Part Three Chris Brown - We are FRIENDS now

Part Four Chris Brown I'm NOT a monster!

Chris Brown Abuse NEVER happened before!

0 comments Posted by Hannah at 11:47 AM

This is a second series in which I wanted to write about Chris Brown and his interview with Larry King. Chris Brown, his Mother and Denial was my first part. Part Three Chris Brown - We are FRIENDS nowPart Four Chris Brown I'm NOT a monster!

Banana in denial It never happened before


Chris Brown's reaction towards the beginning of the interview is pretty typical. In most cases abusers will NOT admit when things happened before, but when they get caught like he did? THAT was the first time! The relationship was pretty normal beforehand.

I realize people will RUSH to say the incidents that are mentioned were never proven. If it never happened would you react like he did? "I don't remember that happening." Most people will say, "THAT NEVER HAPPENED!"

The lawyer stated that the probation people took those incidents from different reports, and placed it in the present report. THAT doesn't mean it never happened! OH AND they never spoke to either of the parties about this.

Where did it come from then? Something was called to their attention, and if neither party told the probation department about it? What it fell out of the air? There seems to be a paper trail they don't want to talk about.

There doesn't have to be an arrest, etc for a paper trail to be there.

How? Think of a little old lady in your neighborhood calling the police because she thinks there is a stranger outside lurking! If something happens down the road that lady's report will surface. Paper trail!

That is why people mention to others to remember to call the police, and have them write things up even if nothing comes of it. That paper trail can come in handy later if it is needed to prove a pattern.

Remember with abusers? It never happened before! Its her word against MINE! No proof - no case! The paper trail would place that into question. You will see a pattern start to develop.

Police do place personal notes in there as well. The 'automatic' guilt isn't automatic, but at least you have a starting point. At times patterns of behavior are very useful if you need to point out a dangerous person.

Granted on this interview I can understand WHY he doesn't wish to go there, but people with any level of common sense? It should tell you things happened prior, and this incident didn't just FALL out of the sky.

I think I would remember taking out windshields wouldn't you?

At this point he has nothing to gain by admitting it. His reputation has already taken a HUGE hit, but it would follow the pattern of abuse wouldn't it?


Notice how Chris spoke, his eye contact, body language, etc. I'm SURE the man is somewhat nervous, but he should be more comfortable than most in front of the cameras. He should be prepared for this interview. He should have had his script down pat beforehand! You can't tell me he didn't have a CLUE what would be asked!

he choked it never happened

As they say in sports? HE CHOKED!

He can't look people in the eyes. He can't speak. According to him they had this normal, healthy relationship. This one time? WELL out of the blue it just plain got out of control!

When abusers are in control they see the relationship as awesome! For them? Why would they see it any other way? When the POWER OVER aspect is present that is fuel, and they feed off it. It is normal to them, and to them also? A very GOOD relationship at that! I truly don't think they see the unhealthy aspect of it. They just can't own it, and why should they? Where is the incentive to? Being equal doesn't give them control. To them it makes them 'less than'. That can make a very unhealthy environment for both. If they can control it, and they get the fuel they feel they need? Why change it!

Don't get me wrong you can have GOOD aspects to these relationships. They are both so unhealthy they can't truly see the unhealthy parts.


chris brown joyce hawkins abuse never happened

Most of us realize that Chris Brown spoke of the domestic violence that happened in his childhood. His mother will admit these things happened as well.

The part she will NOT admit to? It had an impact on him. There is no way it could have NO impact at all.

Think of the story that is told about the two brothers. They had an abusive father, and were abused themselves. When they grew up one son was abusive towards his family, and other was the complete opposite of that. When they were asked WHY they treated their families as they did? What was their answer? They both answered the same. BECAUSE OF DAD!

Don't think if it was MOM that abused it would be any different! Abuse impacts children's lifes.

Chris Brown's mother claims her experiences, and what he dealt with in life didn't impact his life. It is NOT the case for her son. What happened was mind boggling to her. "He never fought in school?" First it was NO, but then it was SCUFFLES! Chris Brown then states it was NEVER against a female!

We see signs were there, and mom isn't helping here!

What did she say to him afterwards? I'm there for you, but when you are wrong I will let you know you are?

She said she will not judge her son, and will not judge anyone. That's all find and great, but she also isn't accepting the reality of things either. The lawyer admits some people never do, and then quickly diverts the conversation elsewhere.

The story got blown out of proportion, and falsehoods existed in those stories. We would show them HOW they were false and people would report them anyway. Breaking of the glass was vandalism not domestic violence! his lawyer commented in order to divert things ....

Larry King quickly stated, "But domestic violence DID happen!" "That's why he wanted to plead guilty right away, an apologize right away!" If you read the dynamics of the abuser? Its not as short, sweet and lovely as that!


Chris Brown states he wasn't going to go the easy way out like other celebrities, and take that slap on the wrist. He was willing to take the brunt of the punishment to show to the world HE won't allow himself to get away with anything.

He mentions that he had already spoken to Rhianna, and she accepted his apology. He wanted to show his fans he was sorry, and took responsibility.

NOT the ones that were MAD at him, but the ones that were behind him and would accept his apology.

denial the abuse never happened

What is wrong with that statement?

The fans that were outraged at being lied to don't count? The ones that felt betrayed aren't an issue? Is that truly stepping up?

I think we all realize that SOME will hold on to this like a death grip, but why take the easy way out and only apologize to ones that you KNOW will accept it? Why not attempt to go there with some of the others? You will NEVER get all of them that's reality, but why write them all off?

You could feel his contempt for them, and if he was sincere? That contempt wouldn't be there. That is a typical abusive trait. If you don't accept my apology than to heck with you!

When you look at the average couple that deals with this? The family members that have a hard time accepting their sorrow, etc are met with contempt from the abuser as well.

THEY are the ones that will help her break up their relationship.

THEY are the ones that are talking her into NOT forgiving ME!


If a couple gets back together again? The abuser will isolate her away from them as well. THEY are a threat to the abuser! If the victim wishes to contact them? She is wrong and doesn't love and accept him the way she should. She will pay for that contact. Where is that sincerity now?

I'm NOT talking about people that LOVE to hate!

I'm talking about the people that question his sincerity. The ones that can see the lack of sincerity by his actions.

Chris Brown isn't truly willing to STEP up and take his lumps! Its easier for the him to cast them off, and not win their trust back.

In the case of an average abuser? If he can keep her away from them (support system) it makes it easier for him to keep control of her.

That resistance is a threat, and he DOES care about the threat he sees in them. He isn't willing to prove them wrong he wants them OUT of the picture, because he shouldn't have to. He said he was sorry, and did his with it!

She knows what he is capable of, and isn't always capable of going against his will. He claims he has changed, but refuses to humble himself to others over what has happened. Is that truly change or another form of a snow job?

It never happened before?! RIGHHHHHHHHHT!

If Chris Brown was sincere in what he said he will care about the "FANS" that left, and he will come to his senses and STOP hating on THEM! If he can win them over with his sincere nature, and accept those that can't accept him due to the circumstances? Hmmmm. We might be looking at the start of a change. This 'my way or the highway' junk shows the opposite of that. Sorry Chris! NOT buying it!

Go and read Part I Chris Brown, Mom and Denial...

Part Three Chris Brown - We are FRIENDS now

Part Four Chris Brown I'm NOT a monster!

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