Below is a transcript from Alicia Gray that came from a video that you can find on Youtube. This is part one only.
Alicia Gray Video Part One
Pastor Mark Wyatt Introduction:
Hey everybody as you know umm about 11 months ago last February we got word at Deeper Life that one of our church members Alicia Gray had been arrested and charged with umm a sexual relationship with one of her students.
She is a high school teacher here in Mobile. And we decided then and there that the degree of her guilt and innocence would not be a deciding factor on how we loved her and how much we loved her. So we decided the rally around them. And we knew that was the right thing to do, and so over the last 11 months its been an amazing thing to watch as Alicia has had her identity redefined in the context of the fact she is the daughter of God. That she is fully loved no matter what she does.
In talking with Alicia's Lawyer - Chris and Alicia decided a few months ago to a plea deal. So they agree to plead out umm for time for her. And so this morning umm a sentence was handed down. And a number of us were able to be there at the court room for her to be there for sentencing.
And in that moment Alicia got to make a statement to the judge before he sentenced her that honestly I have to tell you that was one of the most powerful things I have ever heard in my life.
Alicia's statement preached the gospel, It showed the power of grace and how grace has saved her. And the love of the father has saved her life.
In that statement she apologized to the young man involved in that relationship, and his family. And she talked about what she wants to see the Lord do there. So after the sentencing umm I was able to sit down with Alicia and get an interview with her on video. We had talked about this beforehand. She wanted to do this. and We want you to hear Alicia's heart. We want you to hear what God has done in her life in the last 11 months.
Here is Alicia Gray.
(1:52 minute Mark in Video)
What is the difference between regret and shame?
(Question presented at the beginning of video)
Hmm. I actually just explained that to some of my in-laws on the way here.
Umm This is something...
So of course I'm very sorry for my selfish actions, and the choices that I made out of insecurity and hurts that I felt myself. Umm And I'm sorry for those, and I'm thankful that God has changed me and shown me my identity in Jesus Christ where I don't make those same selfish decisions and hurt other people.
umm So because of that joy he has given me, and the changed identity I no longer have to feel shame about the person I once was. And I will never be again, and because I know who I am in Jesus.
Its one of those things of peace and rest, which are words we thrown around alot but...God really gives us overwhelming peace when you know who you are, and you don't have to do something to make God happy at you.
You don't have to perform for other people, and ahh because I have had alot of advice throughout this: that they need to see me cry more, and people need to see me fall apart. And my body sometimes makes me think, 'Shouldn't I be a mess right now? Shouldn't I have to do this? But God just lets that peace fall, and gives me that security of knowing that I'm just not that person anymore!
And I don't have to live the way I used to live, because it was different, but I had DID. I had insecurities. I umm I had pain in my own heart, and a void I thought I needed to fill.
Though attention and all kinds of other things. And that void was just needing Jesus. And having absolutely no lack, and that he completely fills everything and makes me secure in whom I am. Happy in whom I am. and makes it where he is the only person I want to please . The great thing is I don't have to do anything to please him. Because when God sees me he just sees Jesus... and Jesus absolute finished work on the cross, and he is very happy of me.
The statement I made in court today, and I would like to everyone to didn't hear in fullness:
I just want to say this in regards to the victim, and the family...and anyone that has been hurt though this: I wanted to apologize for my inappropriate, and selfish and very hurtful actions.
Selfish really is the word. I acted out on my own though my own insecurities without thoughtful concern for anyone else's well being.
I realize I have hurt many people, and I've also realized the implications of what I've done.
And the possible difficulties that can cause for people who have been hurt: Bitterness, angry, fear, anxiety, depression and insecurity...and so on, and all those things we think those things that led up to my behaviors. And I don't wish that on anyone else.
Umm Complete healing is needed for you to be able to walk in and umm in complete grace that God gives.
And I apologize for what I have done, and that person from a year ago is gone, and has changed forever thanks to the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ. And God our father and the renewed mind that he has given me.
Everyone that has been hurt is constantly in my prayers, and I pray that my unwarranted actions and the hurt it has caused don't have a hold on anyone's life's. I pray for peace, healing and restoration.
And my ultimate prayer is you kingdom come, and your will be done God.
Take this situation and that should have never ever happened, and provide healing and rest in the ones that have been hurt.
Um Jesus has brought me to a place of peace in which I'm ready for the consequences that should befall me.
He showed me the continued difficulty that people would experience should this case go to trial. so, I have no desire to drag anyone through that. Or require people that have been hurt to have to testify publicly, or hear the testimonies.
Thankfully God presented another option which I can confess my actions alone without requiring others to have anyone have to endure that. I confess my sin, and I ask forgiveness whom each person involved. Anyone that has been hurt or touched by this. Whether small or big is all the same. Hurt is hurt.
I don't expect that the forgiveness might happen. I understand the implications of pain and bitterness that I have caused. Your completely justified to feel that way, but I do pray that each of you be free of the pain and bitterness, anger, anxiety or whatever you feel. Those are not things that are from God. God does not want that for you. He didn't want the situation to happen, but Thank God he uses the hurts of others. He redeemed me. And he placed it in my heart to just glorify him. And I pray that he uses this situation to heal all those involved.
God is the business of loving people and restoring lives. Nothing compares to his great love.
There are several people that have been victim to this situation. All those that have been hurt. It should have never happened to you, but God still makes beauty from ashes. He can restore your life’s that are broken, and because I chose to act out of selfishness and hurt... people. I continue to pray that the healer of all healers can give you freedom from the pain you have experienced. I will ask my friends, family, and church congregation to keep you in prayer for complete healing, peace and restoration. Grace and peace be with you.
We all know that churches – or shall we say more directly HUMANS make mistakes. It happens, because we all have screwed up royally at times. Church leadership isn’t immune. For me its how they handle their mistakes that show their fruit. Then you have times in which tragedy hits, and if they make mistakes hiding the tragedy instead of facing it? It’s hard to wrap you head around WHY they refuse to face the truth. The more they bounce around? The more trust they break along the way.
We have a saying that goes, ‘The larger they are the harder they fall’.
Today when we look at large congregations in trouble? It also depends on how they handle that fall, because if they handle it badly? They don’t just fall hard…they tend to bounce.
The more they bounce along they are also asking others to endure one hard fall after another.
I think we have all experienced that in life. We blew it in some way, and when the time came to face our error….we hid it instead. We may have been scared of the consequences, or just wanted to get away with it. We may have told just part of the story, and were hesitate to share the entire circumstance.
Then before we know it we get nailed with a full out wrath that tends to be worse than if we had just LAID out our sin the way we were suppose to in the beginning. Most individuals tend to give all up at that point, because its clear to them the truth is out. There is no denying it. Its scary, and its hard but its time to let it all go.
It seems lately we have very LARGE organizations within the faith bouncing all over the place by choice. Now realize I’m not saying ‘literally’ by choice, and I guess the better way to phase that is bouncing due to ‘choices’. Okay, YES I guess I was right the first time….they bounce by choice.
They have some ugly, awful thing happen within their congregation. They wait until they HAVE to say something, and then they choose to say as little as possible. They fall hard, and then BOUNCE up with business as usual.
Then another piece comes out, and they fall hard once again and BOUNCE up once again. The circumstances tends to settle in, and more comes to light. BOUNCE! BOUNCE! BOUNCE!
Keep in mind its not different types of sin that surfaced, but the same one that they attempted to silence to begin with. What’s even harder to understand is the people that back up their decision to go down this silly path to begin with.
You normally hear all these excuses about how they had to weight what was appropriate to share, and when they needed share it. You would think the first or second time they BOUNCED they would have realized its time to lay it all out there.
They have a hard time admitting that they break that bond of trust they have within their congregation each and every time they decide to bounce instead of just falling…and then slowly getting up to learn from their mistake.
It’s rather scary for me to realize that these leaders are really true cowards at heart. They are quick to preach what the bible says, and refuse to learn a darn thing themselves. Yes, that is part of the reason they are called Pharisees.
When you read the bible during those times in which Jesus got truly upset with the sin of others? It was normally directed towards the religious leaders at the time.
They got so consumed with their power, prestige, and role within the community. They had all the answers, and they expected people to fall into line when it came to what they had to say. All that power in a sense went to their heads, and not their hearts.
They lost the essence of their position, because they wanted to LEAD not GUIDE. They got more out of sin sniffing, because they knew they were almost immune from it themselves. If people questioned that part? They had their own personal thugs (they call supporters) waiting for their time to tear you apart for not doing as you were told.
I have known many truly decent pastors in my lifetime. They also had some hard circumstances come their way, and they were the first to admit how agonizing it was. Hiding these things just wasn’t within their character. They looked to themselves, their church policies, and everything else under the sun to see HOW this failure could have happened. They wanted to be sure it could never happen again. They wanted everyone else to watch for it as well!
They were the ones that were quick to take the blame, and really own it. They knew their position, and they felt the responsibility. They mourned with those that mourned, and along with that asked for forgiveness. I think most of us realize unless they did the sin themselves it wasn’t ultimately their responsibility, but none the less they owned it. They will be the first to admit they dropped the ball somewhere, and they will point it out…and take their lumps that comes along with it. Notice they aren’t the ones that need the thugs – errrr ‘supporters’ either! At least not in the same way the bouncing ball pastors do!
I would say that most people respond to that type of leadership, because we have all lived similar circumstances yet in different ways. We can empathize with it if nothing else. That is the firm foundation of being able to grow past it. The foundation was firm because there was no bombshell waiting to be the next earthquake to smash it to pieces.
We always struggle with HOW on earth these men in leadership can allow themselves to keep bouncing like a ball, instead of just facing things that God would have them face. I look at the attitude that we clearly see today that was spoken of in scripture so long ago: 42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue;43 for they loved human praise more than praise from God.
Here is the entire passage:
John 12:37-43
37 Even after Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. 38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:
“Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”[a]
39 For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them.”[b]
41 Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.
42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue;43 for they loved human praise more than praise from God.
Tragedy will always hit churches at one time or another. Its how we handle this that shows our true faith in God. The truth will help the survival of the church, and hiding things just tears at the organization’s foundation. No doubt everywhere you go you will find the ‘yes men’, and they will hide things even knowing the truth. A leader with integrity will not allow the errors the church made be hidden, because they know God will find a way to heal them.
Yes, that is the harder road to travel. Isn’t that what we hear preached all the time anyway?
When they hide things, and allow their churches to bounce, bounce and bounce again? To me it shows they just don’t get it, and honestly shouldn’t be in the position within the church. It’s bad enough having the deal with the sin all by itself, but breaking the bond of trust towards the position by hiding things? It makes things worse. The eyes are blind, their hearts are hardened.
Then you have those that know better, and would rather play the supporters for these cowards then speak for truth themselves. Both the leadership and their thugs will be the first to attack anyone that questions their way of doing business. They also encourage others to do the same.
What the church doesn’t see is with each bounce they ask members to endure they lose trust, and members leave silently. Secrets kill churches, and individuals faith.
It’s not an easy place to stand up against that type of force, but it is God’s way. At times you lose your place of worship, friends, family, and even your own position.
Truth isn’t always a very easy place to stand with. Gods asks us to anyway. He has a plan, and we must have faith enough to wait on him. He has a plan even when we may not see one. Truth is what sets us free, and a church that plays a bouncing ball just isn’t.
I actually call forgiveness the "F" word for the evangelical community, because of how they use forgiveness.
It's not that victims are against forgiveness.
Victims are against forgiveness as the solution to the problem.
Because the problem will go on and on and on as long as every victim continues to give forgiveness. The organization does not have to address the issues.
Children of missionaries were placed in boarding schools while their parents served as missionaries – in this case in Africa. The children were abused badly by the caregivers, and as adult survivors they asked the missionary organization to start dealing with what happened. The organization threw out the ‘forgiveness’ card, and stonewalled with prevention of this from happening to other children. They wanted to blow it off as a ‘select few’ that I’m sure they wanted to treat as bad apples, but were overwhelmed with the numbers of survivors that came forward after the story went public.
What happened next was a show of fear towards the missionary alliance’s reputation, and self preservation. They attempted to ‘deal with it’, but you get the sense they did it more from pressure than from genuine concern.
Once the heat was removed (somewhat anyway) they were able to go on ‘doing God’s work’. What they failed to realize or face was helping these victims, and preventing future victims IS God’s work as well. They pretended their priories were not out of whack.
Sadly, what it shows is if other missionary children are abused? They have no hope of true support within their community. They will be set adrift. I pray that the links I supplied below will be of help to you.
As the men and women within this video documentary spoke of the triggers they deal with to this day? That doesn’t show a lack of forgiveness, but of struggle.
They are still struggling to learn to cope with their past, and superhuman type of forgiveness others demand of them is NOT helping them by any stretch of the imagination.
Its true that the faith community does tend to use forgiveness so they don’t have to address the problem or issues. Once the victim ‘forgives’ they move on as if nothing ever happened. Victims are left to deal with this on their own, and sharing the burdens that comes from healing is the ‘unforgiveable’ to ask for.
Today forgiveness is a tool that is used, so the church doesn’t have to deal with things that seem to ugly.
Forgiveness is suppose to be for us, and yet it is used as a ‘on demand’ concept for others. The forgiveness then turns into something for others, and not for the victim at all.
You see this way to often when dealing with emotional abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, and spiritual abuse. Most of the time people that abuse others in this way? The victims are asked to forgive their abuser, and then sadly those victims must then find ways of forgiving those that counseled them (on forgiveness) because they would rather wipe the slate clean afterwards – then help them mend other aspects that go along with healing afterwards.
You see those cycle of emotions afterwards are used as ‘points of unforgiveness or bitterness’, and that is the big lie when it comes to support of abuse victims. Its laziness, unforgiveness towards victims, and fear of how this would impact THEIR circumstance and might bruise THEIR lifes or organization. It has nothing to do with smearing God in some way, but has everything to do with their fear of facing sin. Its self perseveration in the ugliest form.
Cycle of Healing – When do you face this?
They say its human to take the path of less resistance. Victims are easy to steam roll because they are in weaken state anyway, and sadly all too often the faith community takes the ‘secular’ path that is far from biblical.
People that are abused, and are allowed healing tend to have cycles similar to the cycle of grief – loss of a loved one. I remember when my father died they reminded me of these stages, and how they may not go in order – and you can deal with one cycle again and again at times.
Denial: “This can’t be happening to me.”
Anger: “Why is this happening? Who is to blame?”
Bargaining: “Make this not happen, and in return I will ____.”
Depression: “I’m too sad to do anything.”
Acceptance: “I’m at peace with what happened.”
They tell you these cycles are normal and healthy. In time you will reach the other side in which you learn to live with what has happened, and are able to go on with life. That doesn’t mean you forget about the death, and you don’t mourn anymore. It means that grief no longer overwhelms your life. Most people have dealt with a death, and you see the genuine support people need as acceptable due to this.
Sadly, that is NOT true for abuse victims most of the time. That seems especially true if those victims are within the church body – and the abuser is also.
It amazes me that people just ask this superhuman concept of others (instant forgiveness) when abuse happens, without having them process things that they have dealt with. Then you notice those that counsel this ‘instant forgiveness’ are the ones railing against some pet sin they are against, and then place this aura of how its ‘everywhere around them’. No, they aren’t ones that do the superhuman concept of instant forgiveness either. Sadly, they are in so much denial they can’t see it.
Transformation is what is truly amazing!
They say if you beat a dog long enough he will learn to bite you in return after a while. In softer terms if you torment a cat all the time you may get a good scratch or bite in defense as well. Most people can ‘grasp’ and understand these concepts, and most are NOT going to blame the animals for their reaction. If you take that animal and place it in better circumstances people are amazed at the transformation.
My Siamese cat died in January – he was 17 years old. He was rescue animal, and you could tell something had happened in the past due to his fear towards things that most cats would not be. He never lashed out, or would bite. He was just full of fear. He was a young cat, and we used plenty of love, patience, and fun to help him come out of his shell. In time he slowly came out, and he learned that not everyone/everything around him was worth fearing. Those fears would pop up from time to time, but they lessoned as he enjoyed being spoiled with praise, kisses, rubs and plenty of kitty treats.
He learned to trust us, and knew we had his best in mind. When he was older we brought home a puppy, and at that point our cat was strong enough to show him (the puppy) WHOM the top dog was in the house. Our cat also was secure enough in his position within the family to learn to love the puppy, and in return the puppy had a healthy respect for that ‘old man’. My Siamese didn’t fear him as he would in the past, and after the patriarchy was established (if you will) he truly cared for his new pup.
Towards the end of his life I think he sensed my fear of losing him, and he just lovingly endured things as we tried to save him with genuine affection in his eyes. The day I put him down he was not afraid either, and he almost gave me one last smile as he fell asleep for the last time. The transformation in that cat was amazing.
I think it is the same with people that are hurt and abused. They need love, patience, grace and loads of support. Fear hurts, and is NOT a comfortable state of living.
Asking victims to forgive is all well and good, but telling them NOT to process their grief, fear, and the other host of emotions? Its not healthy nor is it normal way of dealing with things. People are big on saying love is not an emotion, but an action. Sadly, the actions are not there with most abuse victims. Using forgiveness as a tool to wipe the slate clean instead of helping them process what happened to them? That’s not love its fear.
Avoidance is fear – not love!
On the one hand I can understand and empathize with this fear, but on the other hand I can see the terrible effects not facing those fears have on life. The instant forgiveness crowd may not realize they cement belief systems in victims when they can not do as God would have them do.
You learn to NOT trust an abuser, and you learn NOT to trust counsel as well when they also aren’t safe to help them process things. That isn’t being a perpetual ‘victim’, but common sense towards the human nature. Its like learning to speak ‘cat’, and telling my old pal he didn’t need our love to move past his fear. It’s unrealistic, and spiritual pixie dust to expect it.
When you read Psalms you hear similar cries of pain and anguish, and yet Psalms is NOT used to show you how NOT to deal with injustice, abuse and neglect. It doesn’t tell others to have this superhuman forgiveness, so others can wipe the slate clean because they are afraid of dealing with reality of circumstances. Instead it shows the pain and reality of life at times, and does NOT encourage people to stuff things down because those around them are to afraid to help.
Its sad that people can show MORE compassion towards the death of pet than they do the destruction of a person.
The church sadly is no different than the world when it comes to injustice within the church.They just have their unique way of NOT dealing with it. The abuser tells you that its all your fault, and the quote ‘healthy’ ones within the church tend to send the same message once the abuse surfaces. Telling them to forgive where the church can forget! Yes, it’s the same as telling victims its their fault all over again.
It’s a sick mindset. The denial is also very strong, and you could see this within the IFB community when the Tina Anderson story was exposed. They just were plain unable to to understand WHY people were against Chuck Phelps being a board member afterwards. They didn’t conceive the reasons that others didn’t accept their ‘authority’ to hound, manipulate and bully those that cried foul. The organization called, Do Right BJU was started and BJU felt they were right – and they showed the world how sadly they do not have good grasp on reality nor scripture.
We had a person on a faith board that used to be in existence that loved to use manipulative statements of forgiveness towards other hurting people. He or She would say something along the lines of, “I’m glad MY God forgives me better than you can forgive others!” Why people think that type of statement is anywhere near helpful towards anyone just boggles the mind. Yet this statement reassembles the attitude towards victims of abuse completely.
When it seems forgiveness is more for them than for you? Its okay to cry foul, and please continue to reach out and find those that do understand what God asks from them towards your pain.
Victims are against forgiveness as the solution to the problem.
Forgiveness isn’t the solution to the problem of denial – its just one step of many towards healing. It’s the scapegoat of the church uses to NOT do what God asks of them. You can’t share in each other burdens when you pretend those burdens no longer exist.
The church sadly in most cases are more hurtful than secular society when dealing with sin within their own circle. I’m so thankful for those individuals, organizations, churches and leaders that live out Christ like Love towards victims. I just pray that some day they aren’t so few and far between.
Please accept the following links if you also need support:
I guess I first need to explain. I will be speaking from the eyes of a small child that watched her parents fight in a southern atmosphere during the civil rights, freedom riders, Martin Luther King, Jr. times. They both grew up in an atmosphere of bigotry, and they were both lead by the Holy Spirit to stand up for what was right and just on this issue.
From what I have gathered they waited until adulthood, and away from the immediate family pressure to do everything they wished to do. They did small things prior, but went all out once the restrictions of their family life was removed.
I remember my own grandfather telling me that he sent his good Christian girl off to Baylor thinking it was a good Christian college – and they ‘ruined her’. Mom told me later she just felt more free to express their beliefs later in life. They were always there.
During that time if you did such a thing you were the worse of the worse. You were the white traitors, and dealt with contempt.
If you watched any of the Freedom Riders program you would understand how truly UNCOMFORTABLE at the very least this stand would place you in if you were in the South. Which is where we were.
My brother and I never saw my parents treat people of color any different than anyone else. They repeated over and over again, ‘Prejudice is ignorance’. They showed us what that meant, and I’m truly thankful for that.
My children have friends from just about every background imaginable. I realize they know history, but their freedom of having those friends with no attitude, comments, and sense of bigotry like I saw in childhood? That is SO big to me!
Prejudice Is Ignorance
This comment can be applied to so much more than my childhood experiences with seeing direct racism.
Prejudice is about power and authority in the eyes of a bigot. If you attempt to place the bigot on the same plain with the source of their prejudice? They see it as taking their power and authority away. Its almost as if the competition is being handed things that was ‘theirs alone’, and they are being forced to share.
In their own pride, selfish nature they lash back. The sense of superiority that they had been raised with is seen as being unjustly taken away.
The Prejudice is ignorance comment that I learned from childhood applies here. Sadly, their response is what is dangerous, damaging and downright hurtful. They seem to think life would be the Dr. Doolittle's push me pull me animal.
I’m going to ‘pull me’ as hard as I can to keep my authority and superiority, and at times I will violently resist the ‘push me’ source of prejudice to view them any different.
If you read any of the myths of what would happen to society if blacks were given this position? You can feel what I’m speaking about. I remember ONE in particular, black men would rape white women.
Their true fear was/is ignorance. With ignorance came hate, contempt, name calling, labeling, lies, etc. Yes, Prejudice is ignorance.
Chuck Phelps is now trying to explain the new ‘forgive and forget’ sexual abuse accusation that he blew off.
You remember the scandal that happened to Woody Allen? He thought it was an awesome idea to shack up with his stepdaughter!
Well I guess we have another Chuck Phelps approved and not concerned about another 'Woody Allen’ saga. Why do I say that? Because Chuck Phelp’s story is a comedy of errors of sorts. I mean Cheryl’s stepfather attempted to do the same thing as Woody Allen did.
He also said he had no legal obligation to call the police because she was an adult when he learned of the allegations.
The sad part is? She had younger siblings in the home as well, and Phelps decided to take the family’s word that THEY reported Cheryl’s claims to the police. Can you imagine?
In the world of one of Woody Allen’s comedies that could happen. The fact we don’t live in the land of comedy – where people don’t get hurt? Chuck Phelps failed his moral obligation to protect those children in the house UNDER the age of 18.
He didn't just blow off Cheryl, but failed her siblings as well.
I have to wonder if we tell people that rob houses if they went to Chuck Phelps house, and they get caught? Tell Pastor Phelps you called the police before they made the decision to rob him. I mean if the man is gullible enough to think the family is going to going to report their own molester? Why wouldn’t he fall for it!
Here is a girl that has gone to his church, and his school. She tells him about unwanted touching from her stepdad Woody. Then Pastor Phelps decided since Chuck Phelps himself told him to STOP that Woody the stepdad did! This is a man that helped raise this young woman, and unlike Ernie Willis he wasn’t brought before the church for (ahem) a compassion plea. I mean he was unfaithful as well no?
It wasn’t until Cheryl was on vacation with her family, and told her Aunt and Uncle about what was happening at home did ANYONE do anything. They – thankfully – took her in their home since it seems her church, and AGAIN her own mother wouldn’t protect her.
In the portion of the letter posted on the website, Sheffield said Cheryl told him her stepfather had been touching her at night, starting when she turned 18 and continuing for a year. He said Cheryl's mother was told of the abuse in January 1996, shortly before Cheryl turned 19, and that her mother went to Phelps for help.
Phelps said the letter went on to say that an officer with the Warner police was investigating the case.
Sheffield said yesterday that he had read what Phelps posted on his website and said he remembered writing everything except the part about the police investigating the case.
"That's news to me today," Sheffield said. "That's completely foreign to me."
Sheffield said he wanted to call the police in 1996, but Cheryl was scared and refused to talk to an officer. Instead, Sheffield said, he called DCYF, since he was concerned about Cheryl's younger sister living in the Warner home.
Now, if we read the above? Phelps is hinting at the fact that Sheffield (the uncle) was going to report what happened to Cheryl, because she had younger siblings in the home.
You notice that Chuck Phelps himself – knowing about this even before Cheryl’s Uncle - didn’t think to do that. Once again Chuck Phelps is trying to say that it’s the police’s fault. It’s not Chuck Phelps that should have called, because according to him he had no legal obligation to do so.
The letter that Phelps posted on his website? It wasn’t even sent to Chuck Phelps to begin with. Another thing he attempts to take credit for receiving:
Sheffield also said he didn't send that letter to Phelps, but wrote it in response to letters he said Cheryl had been receiving from friends at Trinity Baptist. After Cheryl moved to California, letters began arriving at Sheffield's house, "questioning why she was leaving God, leaving the church," Sheffield said. "It was all being blamed on her by them."
He said the person to whom he sent the letter must have given it to Phelps.
This tends to line up with what Tina Anderson was saying from the beginning as well. How they were the one and true church – how everyone else is not doing it right, etc. Ahem. I'm sure Chuck Phelps will also state that he had no idea about the letters - which would be a lie.
Sheffield said he also had a phone conversation with Phelps either shortly before or after he mailed the letter. He said he asked Phelps why he didn't report the allegations to the police, and "what I remember him saying is he did not have any obligation, any legal standing to report this," citing confidentiality rules protecting a pastor's conversations with church members, Sheffield said.
While Phelps said yesterday that he never instructed Cheryl to forgive and forget, "I'll never forget that," Sheffield said, recalling his conversation with the pastor. "He used the words 'forgive and forget.' That it did no good to destroy that family."
Tina was thrown under the bus for the sake of Ernie Willis’s family as well. There was no reason his family needed to be destroyed, and so they sent Tina away to have her baby among strangers.
Now. Seriously. Can you imagine any pastor ‘condoning’ a Woody Allen type of relationship within their church? I guess in Chuck Phelps eyes he didn’t. I mean he told him to stop, and according to Chuck Phelps he did. According to Cheryl? Well, I guess that doesn’t matter. We must not destroy that family.
We also don’t need to make sure that stepdad Woody doesn’t go on to ‘touch’ anyone else in that family – well besides his lovely enabling wife.
Church’s like the ones that Phelps ministers to? They are ones that hold family above the people within it.
They are ones that use rose colored glasses to see the ‘best’ only. They refuse to deal with the dirty that happens in this world.
They are part of the reason that people leave the church, give up on God, try to drown their pain with drugs and booze. Why? They need to deal with the dirty parts, and find a way of living with them in order to heal.
Forgive and Forget? Phelps says:
"That is language that is being suggested by a special-interest group that publicly criticizes independent Baptist churches to generate media attention," Phelps, now a pastor at a Baptist church in Indianapolis, said in a statement. "That allegation is a bald-faced lie."
Malachi 2:7 “For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, because he is the messenger of the LORD Almighty and people seek instruction from his mouth. 8 But you have turned from the way and by your teaching have caused many to stumble; you have violated the covenant with Levi,” says the LORD Almighty. 9 “So I have caused you to be despised and humiliated before all the people, because you have not followed my ways but have shown partiality in matters of the law.”
Your play on words does NOT make your actions better. I’m not part of a ‘special interest group’, and it doesn’t take brain surgeon to realize you once again have shown your proven track record of betrayal.
Breaking Covenant Through Injustice
Malachi2:17 You have wearied the LORD with your words.
“How have we wearied him?” you ask.
By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the LORD, and he is pleased with them”
or “Where is the God of justice?"
Partiality in matters of law God sees. It was so plain others see it as well. You don’t enable a Woody Allen type of stepfather to stay in the home with other children. Their safety and wellbeing is more important than the marriage. It was evil and even children can point it out to you.
9 “So I have caused you to be despised and humiliated before all the people, because you have not followed my ways but have shown partiality in matters of the law.”
Chuck Phelps at Tina Anderson's Trial attempting to get
sympathy for being thrown under the bus.
Sadly, it has been brought out that a second victim of Chuck Phelps, and his time at Trinity Baptist Church in Concord NH has been brought forward.
Once again Chuck Phelps is working with his lawyer to make sure his response to this second accusation is not seen as pure damage control.
Watch the chasm again of Forgive and Forget.
ChucklesTravels has the victim's uncle response. The Concord Monitor wrote a story about, but they tend not to allow non subscribers read it. I placed a copy in my documents section online if you would like to read it.
Chuck Phelps of course has his response online once again. You can click to enlarge.
I'm sure as with the Tina Anderson story more things will surface as time goes along.
The one thing that is similar between the two stories is that Dr. Chuck Phelps is more concerned about defending himself, and calls this a 'second sad story'. He makes a point - once again - of the age of the victim. He then claims the abuses stopped after he was informed of this.
This victim - unlike Tina - moved in with her Aunt and Uncle after informing them during a family vacation what had been happening at home. The victim's mother told her brother (the uncle) that it had been dealt with - within the church. The uncle contacted the police in the area, because she had two younger siblings still living them. He also contacted Chuck Phelps who basically told him it was confidential, and the victim needed to forgive and forget.
Brian Fuller, current pastor of Trinity Baptist Church has removed the stepfather from worship, and other activities since learning about this second case. Something of course that never entered the mind of Chuck Phelps during Tina's nor the new victim allegations at the time. It seems that Chuck Phelps likes to forgive and forget.
Chuck Phelps also stated he contacted child services and the police once he was informed of the abuses, due to there being two other minors in the home. The police claim no such record was filed.
Below is a letter that Chuck Phelps has on his website now. He is basically attempting to take credit for the conviction that he fought very hard not to help happen in the first place. The quoted portions are my notes. His entitlement and diversions is amazing to me. No humbleness is shown. Its sad.
A Verdict Reached – Ernie Willis Guilty
The trail of Ernie Willis took place in Concord, NH, from May 23 to 28, 2011. After a week of hearing witnesses, a jury found Ernie Willis Guilt on all counts placed before them. There are those who may be curious about my reactions.
I am relieved. Tina Anderson had a right to seek justice, and she is no doubt thankful that Ernie Willis has been convicted. Ernie Willis broke the law. No one has ever denied this. When Tina made allegations concerning Ernie Willis in 1997, her mother and I reported the matter as a crime to the Concord police department (a fact now affirmed under oath by me, her mother, and the Concord police investigator assigned to the case). Unfortunately, the Concord police were not diligent to follow-up on the reports given to them. Further, it was affirmed under oath by me and a Concord police officer that I called the New Hampshire Division of Youth and Family Services and reported Tina’s situation as was required by the law. Sadly, this report did not bring the immediate follow-up that is expected norm today.
If you note from the trial?
Chuck Phelps and Christine Leaf both made it clear that Tina made no ‘allegations’ of rape to them – the purpose of the trial. They both repeatedly reminded everyone she never said she was ‘raped’. It was a ‘convert dating relationship’, and Phelps even noted on camera that he didn’t consider it rape. By calling this a ‘covert dating relationship’ does infer that he felt it was ‘consensual’, and not a crime at least in his eyes.
What Chuck Phelps is leaving out is they do not have record of him contacting the police, but do have a record of him contacting New Hampshire's child services. The police officer he mentions above contacted him – after children’s services reported to the officer, and Phelps never returned the calls. Chuck Phelps also needs to realize that he had a ethic and moral obligation – besides his duty lawfully – to follow up if he KNEW for sure Ernie Willis broke the law – as he claims no one denied. He needs to apologize for his lack of ‘diligent follow-up’ as well, that should have been expected to be ‘norm’ now and at the time.
At my recommendation Mrs. Leaf took Tina to see a licensed medical professional who examined her in private and never called the police (a fact also established by the medical professional’s testimony in court).
The facts posted on this website since the April 8th 20/20 program aired have now been stated under oath. On Tuesday, May 24, 2011, the court determined that I could share what had previously been confidential information which I received from Mr. Willis many years ago. The release of this information no doubt played a very important part in bringing these matters to justice.
I downloaded that video, and placed it on my youtube account because I didn’t wish to link to Piper’s site.
Recently, it has come to my attention that the video was brought down on the Desiring God website with no explanation at all. My copy of this teaching on youtube may be the only one left online to access. I have it on my hard drive in case that one disappears as well.
I have noticed over the years this video has infuriated people, and they use this on their own sites to speak out against the teaching that is not only naïve – but dangerous.
The confusion the CBMW speaks about to me isn’t based in gender, but in double standards.
When I originally wrote about John Piper’s video over submission and abuse? I was very frustrated at that point, and my post went into a different direction. I asked the readers to see if their children would write John Piper about their experiences living with an abusive parent. Why? I don’t think the spouse is taken seriously, nor are they heard. I wanted to try a different direction to see if we could wake the sleeping giant in this area.
There is something WRONG with base teachings if you can show proper empathy towards an adult child when they struggle with how to ‘feel’ about abusive parents – and yet use all these different rabbits trails when it’s a spouse.
Don’t get me wrong I do appreciate his acknowledgment of the child’s pain, but when you give more meat and potatoes towards the child than you do the spouse? Please don’t talk to me about how people are gender confused, and how people don’t know how to be a proper biblical man or woman in the proper biblical roles.
I read an article recently on Christianity Today, about a man I think most of us have heard of. Do you remember Mister Rogers?
I remember when I was young my mother had us watch his show, and told us that he was a Presbyterian minister. The picture was an Album my parents got us one year, and the rectangle shown in the picture was a mirror. You looked in the mirror on the cover, and Mister Rogers was reminding you how special you were once again. I was a little old for the album, but I remember using it when I babysat.
Mister Rogers reminds me of the scripture: Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit the earth. His message not only to children, but to everyone was 'accept everyone for who they are'.
To me it wasn't just lip service for him, and as I was looking on Youtube I saw an interview with on the Rosie O'Donnell show. Rosie is controversial on many realms, but has a big heart for children. When I saw the interview I could just hear many Christians saying, "I don't know if I would go on her show. It might be seen as endorsing her lifestyle (She is a Lesbian) !" His grace filled nature just shined through, and his kindness wasn't just for show. It was who he was towards everyone.
Lady Elaine
I was watching an interview with him as well, and he spoke of the stereotype we hear about 'how men should be' when it comes to showing their feelings. We have all heard the sayings right? Men don't cry! Men don't get emotional! Society wanted men to be STUFFERS, and he mentioned that he used to use music to allow those feelings to surface. If he was upset, sad, happy whatever it was he could freely show them with his music. He mentioned it never hurt anyone.
He found an acceptable way of doing this, and he was very clear about how this gift came from God. He was able to throw off the society's rules, and show his feelings. His wife mentioned that it takes a certain amount of courage to tell his feelings. How he has been liberated for a very long time, and she was sure there were many men that would very much like to me that way.
...Because if you are trusted then people will allow you to share their inner garden with you. What greater gift? - Fred Rogers
What does it mean to be MEEK?
I think there are so many people that look upon the word as a sort of weakness. Someone that is naive, and easy to run over. Someone silly and maybe not all that intelligent. I guess they seem to think of maybe children's show like Winnie the Pooh or Sponge Bob.
Daniel the Tiger
There is talk about how RIGHT is MIGHT now days, and how men aren't allowed to be MEN anymore. I also think people get the wrong idea about men that are filled to the brim with the Holy Spirit, and their gentle nature is taken as 'feminized' today. Most define the word as mild mannered, spine-less, weak, submissive, subservient, passive…ineffective.
To me in today's culture we get so CAUGHT up in placing everything into 'roles', or categories of 'male and female' that we seem to miss something very important.
Jesus was meek, and you have to wonder if they ever stopped to think MAYBE they have the wrong impression of the word meek. The definition of meek I guess is hard, because it has many aspects to it. Its a multi faceted word, and maybe that is why people don't understand it. I know if they truly knew the meaning? I doubt pushover would come to mind.
ANGER
Lets take how a person would approach anger! I think we all know that the bible states we can be angry, but do not sin in that anger. Anger can be a selfish response to the world and other people. We feel angry when we feel don’t get our way or we feel like we are not being noticed.
The meek get angry, but they are angry for the right reasons. Some things in this life should make you angry.
When someone does something to hurt someone else, or you…the proper response is anger! When we encounter injustice, prejudice, and hatred it causes righteous anger inside us, which helps us have the courage to strive towards change at times!
The meek have more self control when it comes to anger if you wish to compare them to most. They seem to understand this passage in James 1:19 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. 21Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.
I'm sure we are all familiar with this passage, but lets look at one sentence again! "for man's anger does not bring about the righteousness that God desires." Human anger rarely accomplishes divine purposes does it? The wrong type of anger is prevalent back then, and of course it is still today!
The Trolley to the Land of Make Believe
The meek don’t confuse their own immature, angry responses to life as God’s anger.
You hear to often people comparing their angry to that of God's. James says that human anger does not accomplish God’s righteousness. People feel since they are angry so is GOD! The meek know the difference and seek to focus on God’s anger rather than their own. We want to GO with that anger, and the meek have enough self control to focus on God's!
When I think about that? God gave them a WHOLE lot of inner strength! Strength that is disciplined, strength that is truly strong, and strength that God wishes us all to have. People say the meek are: mild mannered, spine-less, weak, submissive, subservient, passive…ineffective. If we look at how those deal with angry compared to how God wishes them to? We have to realize WHOM is truly the weak ones!
Gentleness
The Strength of the Lion, and the Gentleness of the Lamb. That is what I think of when I think of the second aspect of meek. It takes great strength to deal with anger the way God would ask us to, and yet he also asks us to be gentle.
Gentleness doesn't mean wimpy by any means. Indeed, this characteristic will largely determine how much peace and contentment are in our lives and how well we do during trials.
To often we get the message in this world of, 'Blessed are the strong, who can hold their own.'
“Gentleness” forces us to take inventory of our attitudes and behaviors. It expresses itself in our attitudes toward God, ourselves and how we treat others.
A humble attitude toward God and others makes us gentle, humble, sensitive and patient in our dealings with others.
The Holy Spirit enables us to over come these worldly behaviors. For example, "Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, depravity, idolatry, sorcery, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish rivalries, dissensions, factions, envying, murder, drunkenness, carousing, and similar things. I am warning you, as I had warned you before: Those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God!" (Galatians 5:19-21) To overcome these passions and behaviors we need more than self-control. We need God’s help! God can indeed help us in this area.
There is an aspect to Mister Rogers that always gentle. He was a very intelligent man, and it seems no matter whom he ran into in life they were special to him. Watch a video of his introduction prior to winning an award.
He was very approachable, and YES people trusted their inner most thoughts and feelings to him. Today some would call that 'feminine', and yet its very healthy for everyone to have someone 'safe' to speak with regarding our inner thoughts if we feel led to.
He also wasn't one that you have to place some 'acting role' out there in order to do this. To often you see people wanting to play this 'role' of goodness, gentleness, etc that is so fake in church, and yet when you meet the real them outside the doors of the church their personality is completely different.
Its not BAD to me, but shows how people can't be real at times. People don't feel comfortable coming to the church with problems the church claims you should when their is an atmosphere is having to deal with things within an acting role.
Today I suppose they would call that an aspect of 'feminizing' the church, but has been there for longer than I can remember. No one can truly be the 'real you' within the atmosphere of the church, but instead have this list of acceptable 'roles' instead. People feel stifled, and since most of us don't fill the role that is placed out there? It almost makes you feel ashamed. Not good enough. Not filling the mark. It doesn't make the church feel safe and approachable. Mister Rogers didn't present that road block. He was genuine, and wanted to see and accept the real you.
That's not feminine, but how God would wish us to all strive for. Today it seems we are to busy looking for aspects to slam others with instead. Mister Rogers wanted to look for the good, and accepted YOU as a unique special creature of God. To me? That's refreshing! People don't have to do this the Mister Rogers way, and I have wonder if there are so few examples out there that is HOW we get to thinking: I don't want to be some man with sweaters, bow ties, and sing to children like he does! THINK outside the BOX people!
On February 28, 2003, the day after Fred's death from stomach cancer at age seventy-four, I published an essay in the Star-Telegram describing our unlikely friendship. For the next several days I was inundated with hundreds of letters, e-mails, and telephone messages from newspaper readers eager to share their own memories of Mister Rogers, and the impact he and his long-running children's program had on their lives. Scores of young adults wrote of the sense of security they felt growing up with him, of learning from Mister Rogers about their own value and what it meant to love. Parents wrote of entrusting their children to Mister Rogers for a half hour each day; the kindly, wise, civilizing influence in a world increasingly bereft of kindness, wisdom, and civility.
As I answered those messages, I was pleased to assure the readers that Fred Rogers and Mister Rogers were indeed one and the same, that in real life Fred was as he appeared on television, the gentle embodiment of goodness and grace.
People poked fun at him due to his view of life, and how he wished to treat others. His wife doesn't give me the impression of someone that wore the pants in the family, but she was showing her true respect towards him. I learned the sweaters that he wore were presents that his mother 'hand made' just for him each Christmas. He didn't have to talk down to people, but could acknowledge their pain. He would be the first to say he still loves them despite their faults. He was very slow to judge.
Jesus had a gentle nature to him. It may at first seem impractical, foolish and even wild, but Jesus was no sentimental dreamer who dealt in empty platitudes either. He was an unflinching realist who has given us a great key to prosperity and dominion under God's purpose. YES in ways he was different in some ways from Mister Rogers. People can do 'gentle' in different ways. What is true of both is they were easy to approach, and save to be with. They were easy to share with, and you could count on the grace towards you. Can you imagine either of them saying you have problem with biblical roles, authority of men, you must be a feminist? That's certainly wasn't their priority in life was it?
Mr. McFelly - Speedy Delivery!
People that are meek used their strength, but also was done cautiously. Just because you can does not mean that you should!
Being able to push others around or force things usually has the opposite result than the one you imagined or planned. The exercise of strength must be judicious, or it can cause more resentment and ill will than any problem it forces to bend to its desire.
To often people don't stop to think of that, and their urge to just tell them how 'ungodly' they are seems to be the norm. When someone tells you if you have problem with the message GO talk to GOD? Does that cause a desire to truly do that the way they intended, or see them as they are..a blow hard!
They say the world can't handle the truth? Yet, they truly need to stop and listen, read scripture again, and maybe take a look at ourselves.
We all know what it is like to have someone use their strength in that way… the overbearing boss, the school yard bully, the older brother or sister, the cop who has let their authority become a license to push rough shod over reason...or to show off at the expense of others!
We see it in churches when people NEEDING to remind others of 'whom is in authority' within their homes. Think about who Mister Rogers concentrated on when it came to authority! It wasn't about HIM, but about God! Mister Rogers could laugh at himself, but had enough inner validation not worry about feelings of others thinking he wasn't a 'true man'.
Who was accepting the truth and whom wasn't? We are to busy pushing agendas, and proving our points. We are to busy showing others THIS is what scripture means, and if you can't accept it you are out of God's will! You see arrogance and not people that are approachable. What happened to a gentle nature being an asset? Now we call it feminized.
Humility
Here are some sayings we maybe familiar with! "You can't teach an old dog new tricks!" or "it is hard to teach a person who knows it all already".
A person who is meek knows that they are gifted, talented, intelligent, but they attribute these gifts to their creator rather than taking credit for it themselves. Mister Rogers always spoke of the gifts others gave to him to enrich his life. He was very gifted, very talented, and as I mentioned very intelligent. He always attributed those gifts from God, and the blessings of the gifts from others enriched his life. He was always looking to learn MORE as well!
Many people have the wrong idea about God, the Bible and humility. They seem to think being humble means groveling in front of others, or thinking we're no good and others are good. I guess people like to take things to the extreme, but the humble person can view balance in life. The bible pictures a humble nature as someone that is free from pride and arrogance. To me a humble person KNOWS who they are in Christ, and also knows that in the flesh they are inadequate.
Scripture says the humble person is the peace maker. They walk in life not by their own 'personal power', but walk humbling in life with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The humility that God grants you if you ask him also shows you that you can be comfortable with WHO you are in the Lord, and show this by putting others first. Loving others as God asks us all to do is not being a wimp. 'Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.' Phil 2:3
This so goes against what is seen in the world. It does against all the stereotypes that culture places out there. People take it to the extreme, and it make it sound like you can never make any decisions for yourself.
Lets look at Mister Rogers acceptance speech of a Lifetime Achievement award that he received. YES he did thank all those that contributed to his life, but he also showed others how to place those before himself.
The Meek will inherit the Earth
People seem to look at that statement, and wonder HOW that can be so? People mistake it seems to me as a 'female' trait. They seem to be looking at something that truly isn't there. William Barclay adds that meekness is "the most untranslatable of words in the New Testament". I can believe it!
King Friday
Jesus was meek…and he inherits the kingdom. The scripture in Philippians…where Jesus humbled himself and became meek as a servant. God exalted him!
“Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him a name that is above every name. The Name of Jesus every knee shall bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD, to the glory of God the Father. Amen.” (Philippians 2: 6-11)
The gentle man knows his own ignorance, limitation and needs. It is freedom from all self-importance. The push for roles to me shows self-importance.
Jesus described this attitude in Matthew 5:3-4 when He said, “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.”
Meek and Humble Spirit? It describes the proper “balance between too much and too little anger.” There are some things in life that should make us angry as we mentioned. Here is the person who is "always angry at the right time, and never angry at the wrong time" with just the precise amount of anger. The gentle man is the man who can patiently endure. He is proactive instead of aggressive.
How do you handle pride, self-glory, aggression, manipulation, the tendency to withdraw and give the old silent treatment, the demand for position, power, privilege, and status? These are manifestations of the flesh or our sinful human nature. Some label it as worldly! Its so easy to go with those, and yet that is not what God tells us to do.
Meek? Again Most define the word as mild mannered, spine-less, weak, submissive, subservient, passive…ineffective. We need to check our spirit! Do we say those things out of demand for power, privilege, status, and self glory that we as humans seek in this world?
We don't all have to be Mister Rogers with his bow tie, knitted sweaters, and asking children 'won't be my neighbor?" That is the part people seem to be giggling about. We are talking about how people need to balance their anger, being gentle enough that others trust and want to approach us, and humble enough to realize that this isn't about us - its about God.
Mister Rogers approached Rosie O'Donnell with grace and kindness. I use her as an example, just because I can just HEAR the comments from others. He didn't worry about 'how it would be seen', etc. He accepted her as who she was. Just like Jesus went to eat with sinners, as the legalistic 'religious' crowd was outside wondering HOW could he do such a thing?
Mister Rogers handed her a shell for a present, and he placed water on it. Told her it looked more beautiful when it was wet. It reminded him of life. That tears and sweat often bring out the best in us.
Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit the Earth.
Let’s claim our inheritance. God has something wonderful waiting for us. "1How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears,[a]we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure. " (1 John 3:1-3).
My Siamese cat died in January – he was 17 years old. He was rescue animal, and you could tell something had happened in the past due to his fear towards things that most cats would not be. He never lashed out, or would bite. He was just full of fear. He was a young cat, and we used plenty of love, patience, and fun to help him come out of his shell. In time he slowly came out, and he learned that not everyone/everything around him was worth fearing. Those fears would pop up from time to time, but they lessoned as he enjoyed being spoiled with praise, kisses, rubs and plenty of kitty treats. 
was in the house. Our cat also was secure enough in his position within the family to learn to love the puppy, and in return the puppy had a healthy respect for that ‘old man’. My Siamese didn’t fear him as he would in the past, and after the patriarchy was established (if you will) he truly cared for his new pup. 
