Flabby in Worship? Wow.

I grew up in a household that you knew you would be going to church each and every Sunday.  Although compared to what seems to be popular today?  No doubt some would have felt my parents had their roles reversed.  My father was a hugely popular Sunday School teacher, and my mother was involved within the governing portions of the church and sang in choir.  Yes, back in the 1960’s and before ‘women’ were allowed governing positions in some churches.  They were both extremely good at what they did as well.

Are You a Part-Time Churchgoer? You May Be Surprised. Speaks about a fiction couple that serves their church by the husband being a deacon, and she helps the children’s ministry.  They have a small growing family, and the author lists out of 52 Sunday’s how many they miss.  The author also lists the reasons they miss church – including sickness.   Then ends by saying people need to be reminded WHY we are called to worship, but reminds the audience its not because he wants you to feel guilt.

I felt it was rather swallow myself.  People gather together all over this world inside and outside the church walls to do worship together.  Making sure the church people see them there each week lest they be called ‘flabby’ is for appearance only.


In some areas of the world – like Egypt right now  - Christians must worship in different ways because their church just burned down.  It dangerous to take their family outside their homes, because they maybe killed. The picture is  man worshipping in Egypt after his church was burned down.  Flabby is not the first word that comes to mind!

Then you have those families in which they are dealing with critically ill, or disabled individuals.  They worship at home with family, because its impossible at times to get to church.

Yes, you could EVEN decide to go out of town to have some family time alone.  I guess what the author doesn’t realize is the fictional family is capable of doing worship OUTSIDE the church walls, and gather together to do so many times…even on different days besides Sunday.  Its rather shallow to me to point out you must be in church to worship so we can see you lest we label you a part time church goer, and we need to write an article to remind you WHY you must worship.


We as a family did worship at home as well, and I remember in particular is the Advent Wreath.  We had other family worship traditions, but the Advent Wreath is something that sticks out on my mind during our family dinnertime.  Dinnertime was Worship time in our family.

When the year was starting to wind up to summer vacation?  Our church each and every year would remind us NOT to forget about the church.  The attendance normally dropped, because families were doing vacations and other things.

My family was no different.  We would go to church during the summer, but we also had ‘family’ things we did during this time as well.  We found creative ways of doing worship during those periods, and we gather together to do just that.

Why did we miss church?

Our family would normally go camping.  My brother and I got to see all kinds of places when we were growing up.  Camping was cheap, and neighbors shared their camping equipment.   If it wasn’t for camping we would have NOT been able to see Yellowstone National Park, and other awesome locations. 


We still laugh about the one night we had a major rain storm. My sleeping bag/air mattress was near the entrance of the tent , and it was running joke that I could sleep through a war.  So NO I don’t remember much about the storm.  In the morning, Dad got up to get out of the tent…stepped on my air mattress/sleeping bad, and all this water came RUSHING onto his socks.  That morning was slept at the camp site’s laundry room pumping quarters into the dryer to dry out the sleeping bags.

My father traveled a lot for his job, and during the summer months it was easier for mother to place us in the car to drive to where my father was working.  He would be gone for weeks at a time for these trips.  His employer put him up at a hotel, and he was given money for food.  We shared the room he got for work, and ate up some of his food allowance during these trips.

Since he was gone so much during the year it was a time we wouldn’t miss school, and we would have more time with him.  Mother always made sure it was an educational trip as well.  We learned the history of each location we went too.  One trip in particular I remember was the hometown of George Washington Carver’s.  He is known as the original ‘peanut’ guy, and he did much more than invent peanut butter!

Also during the summertime, my parents would send my brother and I to our relatives.  It normally started with my parents loading us UP in the car, and driving 1/2 way down to met up with the grandparents in some different location each year.  We would do some visiting there, and then the grandparents would take us the rest of the way to their homes.  The reverse would happen when it was time to go home.

I think my parents used this time to get to know each other again, and spend some quality ‘alone’ time without the kids around.  Can’t blame them THERE!  I honestly couldn’t tell you about their church attendance then, because I wasn’t there.  If I were guessing?  They went!

So during these 3 months during the year our Church Attendance was ‘light’, but we always returned to our regularly scheduled program during the Fall!  During these family times YES we did worship, but not for the world to see because we were sitting in our pews.

Times have changed, and so has the family.  There are different reasons or circumstances that families miss church. 

Recent statistics show that an increasing number of evangelicals who are firm in their faith are flabby in their practice of actually gathering with their brothers and sisters in worship. It’s the part-time syndrome, and it can sneak up on any of us.

Now, to be fair the author did attempt to let you know that people shouldn’t be ‘guilted’ into going to church, because that would miss the point of the purpose of being there.  So, you have to wonder what the purpose was of the above, and the list of missed Sunday’s.  It showed just the opposite, because he felt they needed to be reminded about the PURPOSE of worship.

As I mentioned above my parents would have us gather at home – on vacation or not – to do worship.  The four of us were a gathering of brothers and sisters.  Sure, we were not in the church building that our family dedicated more time to than just Sundays.  We were gathering in worship though, and people do this all the time OUTSIDE the church.  So, no offense but they seem a bit flabby in their grace and understanding of what this means.

Jesus didn’t have people ‘meet’ in a church building, and he preached his teachings in all kinds of different locations.  After his death, once again a gathering of believers did not take place in a church building. 

There are all kinds of people in the present day that have no church to go to, or have to meet in secret.  They are able to gather together as brother and sisters in worship as well.

The formal and the non formal are both acceptable.  They are both God honoring.  One is not more flabby than the other.  There are ALL kinds of ways to gather together.  I find the article has a bit of manipulative spin to it.

The best way to respond is not with guilt or with a false grace, but with the reminder of the purpose of worship. You aren’t there to fill up at the gas station (after all, you can get some sort of spiritual sustenance by reading or listening to your preacher’s podcasts apart from the body of Christ). This is a distorted view of the purpose of gathering.
The author of Hebrews clues us in. Being with your brothers and sisters is where you are able to stir one another up to love and good deeds. It’s the place where the confession of hope is celebrated and put before you and where you are urged to cling to it tightly.
It’s not just the content you receive every week that is so formative; it’s the act of being together and making the Lord’s family your priority. It’s similar to a family that gathers every evening for a meal. The value is not in the specifics of your conversation, but the very act of demonstrating your love for each other.
We don’t go to church because of guilt. We are the church because of grace.
That’s what Geoff and Christine, along with you and I, need to remember.

I’m sorry but this person as a ‘distorted’ view of a Church goer.  Formal gatherings seem to be counted more heavily in his view than other types of circumstances.  Formal gatherings at church isn’t the only TRUE way of showing that the Lord is your families' priority.   Missing church at times, or doing more informal ways – like it has to be done in SO many other parts of the world – doesn’t mean they do NOT cling to their faith tightly.

I would ask this author to acknowledge that people in his story demonstrate their love for the church, their family, and their dedication to the Lord by not only church attendance (part time or not).  They spend time on your ministries within the church, and no doubt they also have a form of family worship.  They GET the purpose of WORSHIP here!

Taking time as a family to do life a little different from time to time doesn’t mean their dedication has swayed.  It doesn’t show they can’t demonstrate their love for one another.  You are using GUILT when you list the number of Sunday’s they miss, and call them a Part Time Church goer in your presentation.  It is a checklist for you – be honest!

In my childhood our time together was a blessing that God granted us.  Our missed church attendance was filled with other things at times, but we still gathered together for worship in other ways.  Our dedication to our church was always present, and honored.  It didn’t disappear just because someone wants to keep a checklist over our missed Sundays, and our reasons for doing so. 

The best way to respond is not with guilt or with a false grace, but with the reminder of the purpose of worship.

Pleasssse!  Most dedicated Christians know what the purpose of worship is.  Do you seriously think that Geoff and Christine in your story do not understand this concept?  If so, why are they part of your Church board, or ministries that teach children?  They were asked to do those things because DO UNDERSTAND this!

When you hint that going to church is the most important :  act of being together and making the Lord’s family your priority?  You seem to be hinting that a family isn’t capable of doing so outside your walls.  How they have been brought down to PART SIDE believers, Dedicators, and Worshipers.  Not so.

So Yeah.  You pretty much laid on the guilt, and false grace.  There is a life of worship outside the church walls, and its been done for centuries.  Hardly Flabby.

The Church Hurt ME! Should we say that?

Should we be saying, “The Church Hurt Me”?  This was a title of a rebuke article over at the Gospel Coalition this last week. 

 

I thought to myself – WOW talk about bad taste to bring up such a thing after some pretty ugly opinions in the light of the ‘alleged’ victims of C.J. Mahaney’s network of churches.  Remember this was just a week PRIOR!

 

Are they seriously that out of touch?

 

Remember this tends to be a figure of speech.  Most of the time people are referring to a principal of hurt they experienced at a church.  The author went the literal route.  As in every Christian on earth, and every Christian Organization HURT me. 

 

I guess if it wasn’t published so quickly after the SGM Scandal I might not have such a bad taste in my mouth.  I would still think it was a bad approach being so literal, but it wouldn’t seem so ugly if the circumstances were NOT as they are!

 

Timing is key at times, and under the circumstances the author seems to be speaking of some petty things in comparison to the ‘alleged’ lawbreakers at Sovereign Grace Ministries they supported just a week prior.  When you think the of heat they took after their statements?  It looks really bad.

 

Here are some items the article brought up for discussion.

• Failure to hear the person's feedback on controversial issue.
  Refusal of certain type of service.
  Church member offending you in some way

Now, under normal circumstances I can see addressing these items.  Yes, some people do get very hurt or dismayed at church.  Heck I suppose even as ‘literally’ as the author wrote to be as well. 

Although since we aren’t under normal circumstances?  Taking a phrase that people use – when you are under criticism of enabling ‘alleged’ lawbreakers? 

Timing of this type of rebuke is just distasteful.

 

The Universal Church

The person could mean the big-C Church has hurt them–all Christians everywhere. That sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? But think about it. When a person says “The church has hurt me” and they’re refusing to visit or join any local congregation of believers they have practically projected their hurt onto the entire universal body of Christ! They have assigned their offense to every possible Christian and Christian congregation imaginable. Practically, their distrust has reached universal proportions. In every case this is false. We might provide some of our best care by helping our friends recognize the practical universalism in some of their reactions. Hopefully we can get them to dial it down to the next possible  level.

 

The person could also mean Sovereign Grace Ministries under C.J Mahaney’s authority, and the brotherhood of pastors that stood by him due to friendship.  OH YES, as they also threw the victims under the bus! 

 

Again most of the time people are talking about a ‘circumstance’, and to try to make your point by being ‘literal’?  Universalism maybe?

 

Some have every reason for the mistrust, and not everyone that gets ‘hurt by the church’ means EVERY universal aspect of Christianity.  Your application is ridiculous!

 

Maybe we need to, “Check to see if someone is referring to a principal of a circumstance – and not literal’. 

 

Sounds a little silly to ask people to ‘dial it down’, because honestly?  He used the same extremes he accuses others of. 

 

I realize the author most likely wasn’t addressing this group of individuals, but more along the types of circumstances he mentioned.  I get that.  Problem is when the wounds are fresh like they are?  You need to at least mention something to them.  You should understand that some of them have said the very same things, and for good reasons.

 

You don’t write an article to rebuke people over petty items compared to the here and now circumstances his own ministry is dealing with (Rebukes of their support).  Can we get real here for a moment?

 

Sadly, they are showing how completely insulated they are from the world their audience lives in.  Honestly?  All it would have taken is a short disclaimer.  I have no doubt he doesn’t even grasp how ugly this sounds.

 

Shall we look at his points?

 

1. Take your pain to the Lord who bore your pain and bore the sin of those who offended. In His arms are 10,000 charms.

2. Take your heart to the ones who actually offended you and seek reconciliation–and if necessary take godly, impartial help.

 

When I see this type of instruction it is rather patronizing to those that are mourning families involved with the Sovereign Grace Ministries scandal.  People that have ‘allegedly’ been harmed by forms of ‘spiritual abuse’, and manipulating scripture to fit an ideology.

 

If we glance at some of the family stories you will find a small child right out of ‘toddlerhood’ being asked to come to a meeting with their pedophile for ‘reconciliation’, and to show forgiveness.  The leadership of the church called this meeting – not the wounded family. When the leadership was called out on this type of thing?  They ignored the rebuke, and a lawsuit followed.  I hope you asked them to dial down their ‘universalism.

 

This family was ‘hurt by the church’.  Figure of speech – not literal!

 

What seems to be a pattern with some churches to never use ‘traumatic’ events like this, and it is what most think of when others speak of being hurt by the church.  After what happened recently?  Why wouldn’t they?

 

When you are writing an article like this on the coat tails of your followers being highly offended by using ‘friendship’ as a basis for ignoring this type of pain?  It would be common sense to view the article being presented in bad taste – and even offensive.  Did you acknowledge those comments under your article?

 

You see the brotherhood of pastors refused to acknowledge those they ‘offended’, and cut off the paths to reconciliation.  Remember the removing of their statement off Facebook when they didn’t like the comments?  Placing it on another website, and closing the comments completely?  Its sad that they don’t see how tacky that is – at the very least!

 

3. Stop saying, “The church hurt me.” It’s affecting your heart toward an entire congregation, many of whom are likely unaware and uninvolved in your hurt, and possibly affecting your heart toward all Christians everywhere. Don’t blame “the church.” Don’t spread your “hurt” over a wider area. If you do, it will dominate you. But if you target your pain and your reconciliation efforts–making it as small and specific as you can–you’ll experience greater control over and freedom from the hurt.

 

Stop taking a general term that most can realize the meaning of, and hinting that your definition only is appropriate one under the circumstances.

 

Most people can ‘discern’ what people are driving at by talking to them when they use this term.  In most circumstances a validation with a pure heart and intent could move mountains, and will crush the domination you see.

 

If you can’t reach people where they are?  Those very TRUE statements you do mention will be completely loss in the translation by most.  You should know that by now.  Please.  THINK!

 

4. Do realize that not every church hurt you and people are not “all the same.” Find a local church you can join. Start slow if you need to. But let the Lord’s manifold grace come to you in the fellowship of His people. That’s normally how He comforts us in our trouble and pain (2 cor. 1).

 

Do you realize when people say this term that their definition does not always align your all compassing one. You see most adults realize that people are not ‘all the same’, and if I were guessing figured that out in childhood.  Please tell us that wasn’t lost on you!

 

OH!  Can you clue the preacher boys in that people that don’t agree with their interruptions of scripture aren’t all evil feminists, or emasculated males?   You see they do give the strong impression that those that don’t agree are ‘all the same’ in that manner.  Matter of fact they make some very strong statements to that effect. 

 

5. Live in hope. Your Lord is also Lord of the Church. He cares for your brokenness but also the brokenness of the Church. And guess what? Your pain is the means He will use to teach the church to grow in love and their love will be the means of your healing. The church needs your hurt and you need the church’s love.

 

That would start if people would speak out against the authoritarian nature of some churches or Christian Organizations, and acknowledge humans tend to use their positions within the hierarchy to ignore the hurt.  Yes, its just that important!

 

The ‘church’ is good at giving you examples all the time on ways to show your love for them, but sadly are NOT very receptive to rebuke when their own ‘authority’ it gets out of hand.   Sadly, it’s a part of human nature that makes them extremely uncomfortable to admit.  Placing the words like:  Biblical or Godly in front of their statements, names, etc. doesn’t always make it so.  People are noticing!

 

Just so I’m clear – most realize that churches aren’t ‘all the same’ in that realm.  Too many are, and it would help if people like yourself dropped the spiritual spin on things and spoke out against them.  Just think of the healing that could take place, and the reconciliation that could start upon that acknowledgement!

 

Lead by Example!

 

Tell the preacher boys that claim the lawsuit, and charges against CJ Mahaney were NOT about ‘founding a ministry’.  How they are intelligent enough to know that, and instead of just deleting that sentence in their statement?  It would look a bit more transparent if they acknowledged the statement was foolish, defensive, and an outright untruth!

 

Remind them that YES friendship can be strong at times, and they can still be friends in private.  BUT when it comes to professionalism within a ministry under such terrible circumstances?  Its not a ‘biblical’ basis of innocence, and their opinions of his character don’t change that.

 

As hard as it is for them they MUST acknowledge that a statue of limitations doesn’t mean there is no grounds for suspicion or lack of guilt.  They wrote this statement from their own emotional state at this time, and their attempt at diversion out of loyalty was sin.

 

Your article asked:  ‘Should we be saying, The Church Hurt ME?’  Yes, unless you have an audience that tends to take things too literally. 

 

There are times to take the literal approach, but sadly in this circumstance?  No.  HECK even if your audience DID say it under the circumstances that you listed?  You tend to look as silly as they do.

Church Leaders that Hide the Truth are Cowards! Can we admit that?

We all know that churches – or shall we say more directly HUMANS make mistakes.  It happens, because we all have screwed up royally at times.  Church leadership isn’t immune.  For me its how they handle their mistakes that show their fruit.    Then you have times in which tragedy hits, and if they make mistakes hiding the tragedy instead of facing it?  It’s hard to wrap you head around WHY they refuse to face the truth.  The more they bounce around?  The more trust they break along the way.

 

We have a saying that goes, ‘The larger they are the harder they fall’. 

 

Today when we look at large congregations in trouble?  It also depends on how they handle that fall, because if they handle it badly?  They don’t just fall hard…they tend to bounce. 

 

The more they bounce along they are also asking others to endure one hard fall after another.

 

I think we have all experienced that in life.  We blew it in some way, and when the time came to face our error….we hid it instead.  We may have been scared of the consequences, or just wanted to get away with it.  We may have told just part of the story, and were hesitate to share the entire circumstance.

 

Then before we know it we get nailed with a full out wrath that tends to be worse than if we had just LAID out our sin the way we were suppose to in the beginning.  Most individuals tend to give all up at that point, because its clear to them the truth is out.  There is no denying it.  Its scary, and its hard but its time to let it all go.

 

It seems lately we have very LARGE organizations within the faith bouncing all over the place by choice.  Now realize I’m not saying ‘literally’ by choice, and I guess the better way to phase that is bouncing due to ‘choices’.  Okay, YES I guess I was right the first time….they bounce by choice.

 

They have some ugly, awful thing happen within their congregation.  They wait until they HAVE to say something, and then they choose to say as little as possible.  They fall hard, and then BOUNCE up with business as usual. 

 

Then another piece comes out, and they fall hard once again and BOUNCE up once again.  The circumstances tends to settle in, and more comes to light.  BOUNCE! BOUNCE! BOUNCE! 

 

Keep in mind its not different types of sin that surfaced, but the same one that they attempted to silence to begin with.  What’s even harder to understand is the people that back up their decision to go down this silly path to begin with.

 

You normally hear all these excuses about how they had to weight what was appropriate to share, and when they needed share it.  You would think the first or second time they BOUNCED they would have realized its time to lay it all out there. 

 

They have a hard time admitting that they break that bond of trust they have within their congregation each and every time they decide to bounce instead of just falling…and then slowly getting up to learn from their mistake.

 

It’s rather scary for me to realize that these leaders are really true cowards at heart.  They are quick to preach what the bible says, and refuse to learn a darn thing themselves.  Yes, that is part of the reason they are called Pharisees.

 

When you read the bible during those times in which Jesus got truly upset with the sin of others?   It was normally directed towards the religious leaders at the time.   

 

They got so consumed with their power, prestige, and role within the community.  They had all the answers, and they expected people to fall into line when it came to what they had to say.  All that power in a sense went to their heads, and not their hearts. 

 

They lost the essence of their position, because they wanted to LEAD not GUIDE.  They got more out of sin sniffing, because they knew they were almost immune from it themselves.  If people questioned that part?  They had their own personal thugs (they call supporters) waiting for their time to tear you apart for not doing as you were told.

 

I have known many truly decent pastors in my lifetime.  They also had some hard circumstances come their way, and they were the first to admit how agonizing it was.  Hiding these things just wasn’t within their character.  They looked to themselves, their church policies, and everything else under the sun to see HOW this failure could have happened.  They wanted to be sure it could never happen again.  They wanted everyone else to watch for it as well!

 

They were the ones that were quick to take the blame, and really own it.  They knew their position, and they felt the responsibility.  They mourned with those that mourned, and along with that asked for forgiveness.  I think most of us realize unless they did the sin themselves it wasn’t ultimately their responsibility, but none the less they owned it.  They will be the first to admit they dropped the ball somewhere, and they will point it out…and take their lumps that comes along with it.  Notice they aren’t the ones that need the thugs – errrr ‘supporters’ either!  At least not in the same way the bouncing ball pastors do!

 

I would say that most people respond to that type of leadership, because we have all lived similar circumstances yet in different ways.  We can empathize with it if nothing else.  That is the firm foundation of being able to grow past it.  The foundation was firm because there was no bombshell waiting to be the next earthquake to smash it to pieces.

 

We always struggle with HOW on earth these men in leadership can allow themselves to keep bouncing like a ball, instead of just facing things that God would have them face.  I look at the attitude that we clearly see today that was spoken of in scripture so long ago: ⁴² Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; ⁴³ for they loved human praise more than praise from God.

Here is the entire passage:

 

John 12:37-43

³⁷ Even after Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. ³⁸ This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:

“Lord, who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”^[a]

³⁹ For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:

⁴⁰ “He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so they can neither see with their eyes,
nor understand with their hearts,
nor turn—and I would heal them.”^[b]

⁴¹ Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.

⁴² Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; ⁴³ for they loved human praise more than praise from God.

 

Tragedy will always hit churches at one time or another.  Its how we handle this that shows our true faith in God.  The truth will help the survival of the church, and hiding things just tears at the organization’s foundation.   No doubt everywhere you go you will find the ‘yes men’, and they will hide things even knowing the truth.  A leader with integrity will not allow the errors the church made be hidden, because they know God will find a way to heal them.

 

Yes, that is the harder road to travel.  Isn’t that what we hear preached all the time anyway?

 

When they hide things, and allow their churches to bounce, bounce and bounce again?  To me it shows they just don’t get it, and honestly shouldn’t be in the position within the church.  It’s bad enough having the deal with the sin all by itself, but breaking the bond of trust towards the position by hiding things?  It makes things worse.  The eyes are blind, their hearts are hardened. 

 

Then you have those that know better, and would rather play the supporters for these cowards then speak for truth themselves.  Both the leadership and their thugs will be the first to attack anyone that questions their way of doing business.  They also encourage others to do the same. 

 

What the church doesn’t see is with each bounce they ask members to endure they lose trust, and members leave silently.  Secrets kill churches, and individuals faith.

 

It’s not an easy place to stand up against that type of force, but it is God’s way.  At times you lose your place of worship, friends, family, and even your own position. 

 

Truth isn’t always a very easy place to stand with.  Gods asks us to anyway.  He has a plan, and we must have faith enough to wait on him.  He has a plan even when we may not see one.  Truth is what sets us free, and a church that plays a bouncing ball just isn’t.

 

C. J. Mahaney Leaves Leadership of Sovereign Grace Ministries

Prestonwood Baptist Doesn't Call the Cops on the Molester, But They Call the Cops on the Church Member Who Asks Questions About the Molester

PSA: Penitent Pedophiles and CrossWay Community Church (SGM)-Graphic

Breaking: Major Win For Alex Grenier/Tim Taylor vs Calvary Chapel’s Bob Grenier

The Importance of Reporting Abuse in a Religious Setting (especially if you attended Bob Jones U)

When men have to be Lords and women subservient, THIS can happen

Expel the wicked person from among you

1 Corinthians 5 ¹¹ But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister^[c] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

¹² What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? ¹³ God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.

This section was in response to a man within the fellowship that was sleeping with his father’s wife.  I do wonder at times why the woman is not mentioned, and have to wonder if it is due to him forcing himself upon her.  After all, the beginning of chapter they were being told to remove this man from fellowship.  No mention of her at all.

Today you can read all kinds of ugly stories of those within the church being brought to the law to pay for crimes they have committed against individuals within the fellowship. 

Although you notice they are NOT removed from the fellowship, and excuses are made instead (ie: pray for them, forgive them, and pretend their sin was minor like a baseball going through the church’s window).  What we seem to miss from the bible is not all sins were treated the same!  Organizations tends to ignore this portion of scripture within the Bible.  Now, they are paying the price for it.

I think most can understand serious crimes can really hurt the fellowship, and YES they should be allowed to mourn this loss.  They also need to be responsible about finding out how this happened, and figuring out how they can lesson this type of thing from happening again.  Since we are human I can’t sit here and write that I feel it can be completely removed from the fellowship, because I honestly think that is unrealistic.  Don’t I wish we could perform such miracles!

Problem it seems today is church organizations seem to wish to handle these types of sin ‘in house’, and sadly their public records of how badly they handle it!  They end up not helping anyone, and hurting more people than what they started with. 

For example, when you defend a man of GAWD, and blame the victim?  The criminal has no incentive to turn from their ways, because no one has the will or backbone to ‘expel’ him as scripture states.  Instead, they would rather them cry at the alter or follow steps the leadership has in mind to show repentance that satisfies them – not God.  Meanwhile, the victim and their family must be instructed on how they are to process things.  If they don’t?  They are the ones that are expelled.

Yes, we tend to do things BACKWARDS!

No doubt some wonder why God would have us do things the way he wrote in the bible.  I have to wonder at times if God doesn’t wish the criminals to face the music of their crime, and once they hit rock bottom have the choice to continue in their sin….or repent and truly turn from their ways. 

Criminals can turn their life around, and God knows this – more than it seems we do at times – but they ALSO have to choice NOT to.  If they stay within the fellowship because the church is too cowardly to follow God’s word?  We have old bread leavened with malice and wickedness.  All we have to do is check history to find this is true, and yet we we still choose to fix things ‘in house’.

⁸ Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

What would happen to the victims if we actually followed scripture?  We already spoke about the criminals above…..

Victims of these crimes are given the support they need to move forward, and I feel forgiveness can be more freely given.  Anger can be processed in a healthy manner as well – after all its righteous anger at first!   

When victims are thrown out of fellowship, and support is given to the criminal instead?  We see the church crumbling around our ears.  Why?  We didn’t follow the Word of God!

Sovereign Grace Ministries seems to be going down fast….

Who Do They Think They Are?

I’m getting so sick and tired of these church leaders telling others that they are hurting Christ in some way by doing what they can define as some ‘sin’.  Notice these ‘sins’ might not be in the bible – nor even hinted at – but they make up some pet sin anyway.

Their words are sweet, and the tone is so mellow as they chant their poison to others.  They basically are preaching hate, and this should be non existent in our places of worship.

Did you ever notice that some circles ALWAYS see the ‘worse’ in everyone except themselves?  It seems taking the speck out of their own eye prior to dealing with the log in someone else’s ONLY applies when they feel it does. 

Who do they think they are?

Should I leave my church?

What a personal question, and I’m sorry I feel is a personal answer as well.

Should I Stay or Should I Go?  by Albert Mohler

I will admit that some reasons people leave a church are rather baffling, but everyone needs to find a church (if they feel draw to belong to one) that feeds them in a profitable way.  What I mean by that is DO THEY bring you closer to Christ, and feed your soul to live for him?!    If they can’t reach you?  They can’t feed you or teach you either. 

If you think about it’s a rather ‘dahhhhh’ moment.   Isn’t serving, worship, teaching, learning, etc important aspects of your faith journey?   Sure it is!  I guess you can robotically do your share, and stay…but why?  Find a place of worship that is able to reach you and your family.  That is SO important!

One of Mohler’s side notes is about people leaving over the worship music.

One person maybe more receptive to the older hymns that I grew up on, and others may need the more contemporary theme.  For myself?  I enjoy both at times. 

Some hymns seem to drone on and on and put me to sleep.  Some contemporary music seems to lack the substance I feel is needed.   Neither are perfect.

I will say most of the churches that I have attended play more than one song, and if I don’t enjoy one – I may enjoy another.    No church will ever give you 100% of your taste in music 100% of the time.  That’s okay as well!  It happens.  I may enjoy the music one week, and not the other.  Big deal. 

I love music myself, and it does effect my mood and receptiveness at times.  NOT always, but sometimes! So if all I hear is long droning hymns?  I maybe snoring during the sermon as they have already put me to sleep. 

If all I hear is no substance contemporary music – that repeats one line over and OVER again all the time – I feel like they want me to be in some hypnotic state, and you will lose me once again.

That is just me, and my reactions maybe different from others.  Its okay.  God made us all custom, and we all are different.  Don’t tell me I’m BAD because I don’t react as you do. 

If you can’t go along with SOME program YOU are hurting the cause of Christ.   I’m sorry, but that is SO dumb and out of touch with most of mankind.

Just as a side note I have never left a church over their music myself.  I would also offer up that most people that mention the ‘music’ will also have other issues as well.  I don’t think they pay attention to that part, because telling others they left the church over music?  WELL it helps their ego a bit! Calling people ‘church shoppers’, and making them sound selfish for leaving?  Sigh.

I mean WHO do they think THEY ARE?

The Blind Side of the Southern Baptist Convention

If Jesus acted like many of us, he would have stayed in heaven. - Eyvonne Sharp

I wanted to write today about some of the silliness that I have seen recently.  To me it shows the world ‘us against them’ is taught within the church.  Shameful as it is.

In 2009 we were presented with the movie called, ‘The Blind Side’.  Now keep in mind Hollywood tends to sugar the story up a bit, but overall the message was clear. 

Michael Oher to me had a village that helped him get out of poverty, and on his way to a better life.  The movie concentrated on the relationship between Leigh Anne Tuohy and Michael Oher.  She was represented as a ‘take charge’ type of gal, and no doubt I’m sure that is part of her personality.  The Tuohy family basically was presented as giving him a home, and help to use his gifts to the fullest potential.  

Now we don’t know if Michael could not make it out of poverty in a gang infested neighborhood alone.  We do know there are plenty of children in his circumstance with roadblocks that are daunting, and at times makes it look almost impossible.  Michael had the drive and will to make it INSIDE, and thankfully had a boatload of people that wanted to help him along with the Tuohy family.

One scene in the movie I have read that bothered the ‘real’ Michael Oher.  He felt that it was presented that Leigh Anne Tuohy was showing him HOW to play football.  How that really frosted him.  I personally didn’t get that impression at all.    Lets look at the scene I believe he was talking about.

Do you know what I see?  I see a teenage boy that lost his focus, and Leigh Anne gave him a pep talk to help him ‘re’ focus because she knew he had it in him.  She just knew how to draw it out of him, and the coach at the time DIDN’T!  She knew Michael knew HOW to play football, but all kids at times lose their focus.  Heck adults at times do also no? 

As a mom?  I would see the coaches losing interest and confidence in him, because he wasn’t doing what he needed to at the time.  She knew the talent was there, and he wasn’t focused enough at the time to show his gift.  She told him to picture his team as ‘his family’ and how he has their back.  That is called encouragement, and we all need it at times.

The real Michael had more than just the Tuohy family.  The movie doesn’t show that at times, but hints at it here and there.  That’s Hollywood!  The relationship with Christ, and showing Christlike behavior is also hinted at.  How many scriptures are there that speak about helping others in a sacrificial way?  Those within Michael Oher circle of supporters did just that, and the movie has been in Christian bookstores ever since.

So what is the silly part?  The Southern Baptist convention asked that Lifeway Bookstore remove the movie, ‘The Blind Side’ from its shelves.  Why?

"I pray that there will not be any more products with explicit profanity, God's name used in vain, and racial slur sold in our Lifeway Christian Book Stores. - Rev. Fred Luter, SBC President"

In other words, the story was too true to life for them.  Life outside the Christian bubble has some dirty parts, but at least the outside world will speak about things realistically.  If you can’t handle the reality for children like Michael Oher?  How are you going to mentor, guide, and help these children?  You can’t if you are too offended by the world they live in.   

Is that HOW we prepare our children to deal with the world outside their parent’s house – or outside the church doors?  Just because others do things, doesn’t mean we have to ‘join in’.  The overall message of the movie was good and something so many others can aspire too.  Since it wasn’t sanitized enough we must instead be ‘offended’ by it.  We can’t reach people that had the will to not only survive but thrive like Michael Oher did if we can’t handle the neighborhoods, and the people surrounding them acting as some would say ‘the world’.

My children went to a Christian elementary, and middle school with some monetary help from others.  Their relationship with God was helped and expanded by those within that church and school.  In other words, their faith life was benefited in so many ways.  That was able to happen even without the ‘sanitized’ environment that other’s feel is needed.    You see even if others don’t wish to admit it the ‘world’ DOES creeps in within the church as well.  When the kids entered public high school?  Their understanding of Christlike behavior helped them deal with the ugliness of the world around them.  They were prepared in some ways, and Why do others completely miss that essential part?

I remember my daughter speaking to me about a pregnant girl in her high school.    She was outraged at how terrible she was being treated by others.  She knew how to look past the sin of ‘premarital’ sex, and offer grace to her.   Should I as her mother be ‘offended’ that she didn’t give this child what for, and remind my child this girl is living her consequences?   Should I rush to figure out a way of getting her OUT of the ‘evil’ school, because her virgin eyes saw something not acceptable?

We need to have balance.  The movie in that bookstore had a rating of PG13.  You had the warning, and if people within your family are NOT mature enough to the rating that was clearly noted on the box?  Don’t buy it! 

I feel sorry for people that can’t see the true, honest and awesome sacrificial way those around Michael Oher uplifted, encouraged, and YES helped him strive and achieve his dream in life.  Could he have made it without them?  Yes.  It would have been much harder for him.  We are asked to do what those people in Michael's life did for him if you look closely at scripture.  What it doesn’t say is to NOT try to help others if they are outside your sanitized biblical small little bubble. 

How awful for the missionaries that they send out into the ‘world’!  They see ugliness far worse than what was seen in this movie.  It’s a wonder they can get anything accomplished!

They need to put that movie back on the shelve, and learn to grow up.  Since they love to come back with extremes in response at times?  NO that doesn’t mean you have sell p@rn next okay!  No that doesn’t mean other types of things either.  From me to you – it means get a GRIP!

What I’m saying is if you can’t be inspired and encouraged by a story like that?  You seriously need to check yourself.  Life has ugly parts, and we can be encouraged and inspired despite them.  It happens all the time.

Come into the real world and breath the air!  Drop the silliness, and live as Christ would have you do.  Christ can protect you from that poison you see at times – remember you have FAITH! … despite your actions to the contrary.  The separate from the world part of the bible?  You are taking it way to far, and you will not be able to do as the people in the movie did if you can’t see that.

‘Christian bookstores’ and the unsustainable bubble of the evangelical subculture

Lifeway, The Blind Side, and what I don’t want to say

Masculine versus Macho – real men or culture?

When I read ugly articles like the one Doug Wilson wrote about Effeminate Worship? I also tend to think about all their opinions on culture. We all know the speeches about how culture is bad, and church people are better.

Funny how they use ‘cultural’ aspects to have people agree with their point of view.

Culture and their definition of masculine

Extremes don’t represent culture in the majority, but it sure does seem to get the attention. In my opinion, only using the extremes is a sign that your points can’t be all that valid. If you can’t use an example that most can truly relate to in their real lifes, and not some imaginary most extreme model that people can come up with? You lost me, and honestly you lose others as well. People just can’t relate.

Eric M. Pazdziora has written an article called, ‘The Truth about “Effeminate Worship”’.

If we want to know the reason men are staying away from church, maybe we just found it. Maybe they see church people as bullies. When somebody tells me I’m not a real man, I don’t want to hang out with them. I had enough of that in the locker room in sixth grade, thanks. If that’s what I’ll find in church, I’ll pass—and so will every other man who doesn’t meet that narrow, culture-blinded, anti-biblical ideal of masculinity.

Enough is enough. This whole tired clichéd pointless insulting emasculating graceless sanctimonious frippery of bellicose machismo should have been laid to rest a hundred years ago.

As with most worship wars, the problem isn’t worship. The problem is lack of worship. We’re looking at culture, not at Christ. We’re preoccupied with effeminacy, not having faith. We’re teaching gender, not the Gospel. We’re talking about manliness, not the Son of Man.

It’s a wonder that preachers that preach the cultural definition of masculinity don’t realize this.  Here is Doug Wilson follow up to the criticisms.

Chuck Phelps now taking credit for conviction

Below is a letter that Chuck Phelps has on his website now.  He is basically attempting to take credit for the conviction that he fought very hard not to help happen in the first place.  The quoted portions are my notes.  His entitlement and diversions is amazing to me.  No humbleness is shown.  Its sad.

A Verdict Reached – Ernie Willis Guilty

The trail of Ernie Willis took place in Concord, NH, from May 23 to 28, 2011.  After a week of hearing witnesses, a jury found Ernie Willis Guilt on all counts placed before them.  There are those who may be curious about my reactions.

I am relieved.  Tina Anderson had a right to seek justice, and she is no doubt thankful that Ernie Willis has been convicted.  Ernie Willis broke the law.  No one has ever denied this.  When Tina made allegations concerning Ernie Willis in 1997, her mother and I reported the matter as a crime to the Concord police department (a fact now affirmed under oath by me, her mother, and the Concord police investigator assigned to the case).  Unfortunately, the Concord police were not diligent to follow-up on the reports given to them.  Further, it was affirmed under oath by me and a Concord police officer that I called the New Hampshire Division of Youth and Family Services and reported Tina’s situation as was required by the law.  Sadly, this report did not bring the immediate follow-up that is expected norm today.

If you note from the trial? 

Chuck Phelps and Christine Leaf both made it clear that Tina made no ‘allegations’ of rape to them – the purpose of the trial.  They both repeatedly reminded everyone she never said she was ‘raped’.  It was a ‘convert dating relationship’, and Phelps even noted on camera that he didn’t consider it rape.  By calling this a ‘covert dating relationship’ does infer that he felt it was ‘consensual’, and not a crime at least in his eyes. 

What Chuck Phelps is leaving out is they do not have record of him contacting the police, but do have a record of him contacting New Hampshire's child services.  The police officer he mentions above contacted him – after children’s services reported to the officer, and Phelps never returned the calls.  Chuck Phelps also needs to realize that he had a ethic and moral obligation – besides his duty lawfully – to follow up if he KNEW for sure Ernie Willis broke the law – as he claims no one denied.  He needs to apologize for his lack of ‘diligent follow-up’ as well, that should have been expected to be ‘norm’ now and at the time. 

At my recommendation Mrs. Leaf took Tina to see a licensed medical professional who examined her in private and never called the police (a fact also established by the medical professional’s testimony in court).

The facts posted on this website since the April 8th 20/20 program aired have now been stated under oath.  On Tuesday, May 24, 2011, the court determined that I could share what had previously been confidential information which I received from Mr. Willis many years ago.  The release of this information no doubt played a very important part in bringing these matters to justice.

I am an Agitator! Want to join me?

Like they were always on guard thinking that
we are going to do something to him
- while they were doing it to us.

I watched the Freedom Riders last night on PBS.  I have to say I was terribly moved.

I don't think the younger generation can truly understand how ugly those attitudes were back then.  Don't get me wrong in saying bigotry is a thing of the past - its not.

Have we forgotten today how much non violence had moved a nation not even a generation ago?  At times I wonder.

You watched blacks and whites - male and female - go directly into the line of fire.  You watched how mobs of people allowed their hate and fear turn to violence.

They had the control, and they will tell you that their Negros liked it that way.  Sound familiar?  The world wasn't going to tell them how they should treat those under them.  They were happy with the status quo, and they spoke for 'their' blacks as well telling the world they were content as well.

When you are raised with this belief, and it is encouraged and lived as much as possible?  It amazes me how much people will just accept it.  I have no doubt that even some 'Negros' as they were labeled believed in their inferior status, but that is NOT to say some or even MOST believed that lie.

If you were in the south you got killed for stepping out of line, or maimed at the very least.   I'm not saying the North were not bigots as well, because we all know they are all over even today.

Jocelyn Andersen has a book, 'Woman this is War' in which she looks at past history to challenge the gender roles.  If you see this documentary (Freedom Riders) you can clearly see Jocelyn's points in her book.  Its like history trying the same old tired excuses, but focuses in a different direction of gender now.

Instead of calling people feminists?  They were called, "Agitators".  Why were they called that?  They felt that people should be able to sit where they wished on the bus.  The 'Negros' were to sit in the back of the bus.  They were not allowed to use the same facilities, or water fountains.

They were to be 'separate but equal' as the saying went to keep the systems of segregation.  The law stated the separation would exist as long as you had equal facilities for each.  We all know that didn't happen.

You hear the whites claim that this system has been in place for hundreds of years, and its just the way the whites like it - and blacks like it as well.  After all, they claim 'the whites are the best friend a negro has!"  If you give him a chance (the white man) he will even show you, and tell you about his benevolence towards 'their' Negros. Makes you sick doesn't it?


Agitators

It's hard to wrap my mind around the fact I grew up in this period.  There was so much toxic hate.  My parents were part of the 'agitators' group, and they raised my brother and I to be agitators as well.  White agitators were the worse kind according to the 'normal red blooded' whites.  We were traitors and a disgrace to our race. 

Here is a quote that truly hit home for me from the movie.  There were many others, but it rang true for today in the world of 'equal in value, but differing roles'.

We dealt with violence everyday in the south.

They didn't treat us like we were human.

They treated us like we were vicious animals.

Like they were always on guard thinking that we are going to do something to them - while they were doing it to us.

The sentence I underlined?  That is called projection.  You project your sins to others.

Charles L. Surrett's twist and turns of the Fallacies of Logic!

Sexual predators, like any other criminal, look for an environment in which they can safely perpetrate their crimes. In an atmosphere where authority figures are viewed as 'anointed' and 'called' by God, where they are looked at as counselors and are privy to secrets in their congregation, where trust does not necessarily have to earned but is granted by the office itself. Women and children are to be submissive, which is often interpreted as subservient. Folks who ask questions are sometimes labeled as gossips and rebels. Stir in the fact that accusations of abuse are usually based solely on the word of a woman or child against The Man of Gawd and well... - you might as well pour Miracle-Gro all over it.

I found this quote on a thread speaking about the Tina Anderson charge against the IFB church.  From what I gather these people are IFB as well.  If we remember from the beginning of the 20/20 show they speak about these views well.

I think we all know there are churches out there that are bit more radical than others.  If you have read around there is a variety of responses about this from IFB members.  To me, the intelligent thing to do is speak out against the parts that have been proven and mishandled.  Responsible organizations would take this example, and reexamine their procedures - then make sure everyone within their church is aware.

Its sad when certain well-known and respected IFB members can't admit they also see mistakes that were made, and instead take a defensive stand to throw others under the bus.

Dr. Chuck Phelps as I mentioned has a website up with difference letters, and explanations to basically cover his butt.  Unfortunately, the more he places up on his website the worse he looks.

Its quite odd that a man of  “God” thinks that it would be acceptable to the world to just ‘do his job’ and report a sexual assault, and then turn around and basically tell everyone he doesn’t believe a sexual assault happened.  Then inform anyone that will listen about how he was ‘kind’ in his response.

Within the 20/20 show they spoke about the ‘old boys network’, and Chuck Phelps has now proved the point.  Dr. Chuck Phelps has placed a letter on his site from one of the boys – Dr. Charles L. Surrett.  In Dr. Surrett’s letter he characterized the show as ‘special pleading’.

Dr. Surrett defined ‘special pleading’ as intentionally presenting favorable evidence to one’s case, while at the same time purposely omitting unfavorable evidence.  He states that this may be acceptable in courtrooms, because the whole truth should come out if both sides do their jobs properly.

I would assume Dr. Surrett’s letter is to show the other side.    The problem I see is I don’t think the man watched the show, nor did he read the other documents on Dr. Chuck Phelps’s site.  He tends to contradict documents on Phelps Site, and his own use of ‘special pleading’ is seen as continuing to twist what happened.

1. He states ABC showed two cases of young ladies who were ‘allegedly’ sexually attacked from members within the IFB churches.  The show actually showed at least three. 
   
   I guess he didn’t count the cases that had convictions.  That would mean the word ‘allegedly’ at this point would be mute in light of them.  He stayed away from that, and didn't acknowledge it at all.  I guess it is because it may make his statements look 'unfavorable'.
   
   I saw that as a play on words myself.  If you are going to make your point you need to 'acknowledge' the conviction of more than one man in that case of sexual molestation that was spoken about on the program.
   
   Don't accuse an organization of 'leaving facts out', and then turn around and do it yourself

Blind leading the blind ...Yet another form of confusion

Blind leading the Blind

I started to read Waneta Dawn's latest piece on her blog Submission Tyranny, in church and Society.

Her article started by speaking of a magazine cover on American Family Association Journey March Edition for 2011.  WELL the first thing I wanted to do was look at the article before I continued to read what she had to say.  I wanted to be sure I knew what she was talking about first by looking at her reference!

In my last post to everyone I pointed out that double standards cause confusion within the church.  When I clicked the article in question that Waneta Dawn was speaking about?  Something just stuck me right over the head, and I wondered is the blind leading the blind here?  Let me quote from the article:

The Billy Graham Association conducted a survey recently and the results should be disheartening to Christians. Of people in the Builder Generation, also known as the Greatest Generation, 65% profess to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. But the slide is steep from there. About 35% of Baby Boomers profess faith in Christ, 15% of Generation X, and only 4% of Generation Y.

    Why the dramatic drop? According to the 2000 census, the majority of children at that time came from single or blended families. Jim Weidmann, executive director of Heritage Builders, said this causes a society in which people don’t have good faith mentors in their lives, so they don’t know how to model faith to their children. “A statistic quoted by a pastor in Texas was that only 10% of parents talk to their kids about spiritual things,” said Weidmann. “That means 90% don’t!”

    Weidmann said one surefire way to stop the hemorrhage of faith in Christ in this nation is for men to take on their God-given duty and become spiritual leaders in their homes. He shared the following thoughts with AFA Journal.

Let me place my business hat on here for a moment, and tell me if you DON'T see what I see!

Keep in mind I realize the church isn't a business - I'm going to talk about business principals that most churches SHOULD be aware of already. 

We have a fall in numbers for people that are claiming to be followers of Jesus Christ. It fell from what would seem 90% during days past to 65% then to:

35% of Baby Boomers
15% generation X
4% generation Y

NOW as a business person if those were percentages for profits, number of customers, or what have you?  That is a SERIOUS drop!  You are bankrupt already if your company's margins went to 4%.  You were in REAL trouble prior to that, and good luck EVEN keeping your doors open with 35%!  That's the reality here, because most churches do have overhead like electricity, mortgage/rent, etc.

Now you can see also from above as well the cause they have identified or hemorrhage is also a good term. It was due to single parent homes, or blended families numbers that are growing in our society.  That's their claim okay?  According to the 2000 census, the majority of children at that time came from single or blended families.

NOW from a business point of view YOUR lucky you found your bottleneck.  Your business isn't reaching the single parent homes, or the blended families homes.  They are not doing business with you for what reasons?

Women Keep Silent!

1 Corinthians 14

I was watching a very interesting video clip on youtube that someone had pointed out.  Paul was speaking with the church in Corinth.  I'm sure most of us realize at that point there was no actual church building, and services were held in different places.  It must have been an exciting and scary time all bundled into one. 

1 Corinthians 14:23-25 GNB  (23)  If, then, the whole church meets together and everyone starts speaking in strange tongues---and if some ordinary people or unbelievers come in, won't they say that you are all crazy?  (24)  But if everyone is proclaiming God's message when some unbelievers or ordinary people come in, they will be convinced of their sin by what they hear. They will be judged by all they hear,  (25)  their secret thoughts will be brought into the open, and they will bow down and worship God, confessing, "Truly God is here among you!"

I have to admit I think Paul has a point here.  Can you imagine being invited to learn more about Christianity, and you walk into the gathering placing with chaos going on?  

Among this group of people everyone is doing their own thing at the same time!

IN THIS CORNER - you have people speaking languages you don't understand!

IN the other CORNER - you have people praying and stating what God is doing in their life!

IN the center of the ring - you have people SINGING his praises!

Not very inviting is it?  I can see how people would think they are all crazy.  ALL these people doing their own thing at the same time - chaos!

Paul spoke about how this group in Corith needs to worship in an orderly fashion, so that those within the worship circle - and those newcomers can be edified, uplifted, and understand what God wishes to reveal to them.

1 Corinthians 14:26-31 GNB  (26)  This is what I mean, my friends. When you meet for worship, one person has a hymn, another a teaching, another a revelation from God, another a message in strange tongues, and still another the explanation of what is said. Everything must be of help to the church.  (27)  If someone is going to speak in strange tongues, two or three at the most should speak, one after the other, and someone else must explain what is being said.  (28)  But if no one is there who can explain, then the one who speaks in strange tongues must be quiet and speak only to himself and to God.  (29)  Two or three who are given God's message should speak, while the others are to judge what they say.  (30)  But if someone sitting in the meeting receives a message from God, the one who is speaking should stop.  (31)  All of you may proclaim God's message, one by one, so that everyone will learn and be encouraged.

To me he is saying everyone must take turns.  

If someone is nudged by the Holy Spirit to speak in tongues, then someone must interpret to the others what is being said.  If no one can interpret what is being said they are asked to be silent, and speak only to God at that point.  Paul earlier in this chapter mentioned the reasons why this is done.  The worship is for the benefit of all in attendance, and if you can't understand what the person is saying?  What benefit are you receiving?  The Holy Spirit may be working in this person, but if you can't understand the message?

Everyone is encouraged to speak, and share one by one so that the group as a whole is edified, uplifted, and encouraged.

1 Corinthians 14:32-35 GNB  (32)  The gift of proclaiming God's message should be under the speaker's control,  (33)  because God does not want us to be in disorder but in harmony and peace. As in all the churches of God's people,  (34)  the women should keep quiet in the meetings. They are not allowed to speak; as the Jewish Law says, they must not be in charge.  (35)  If they want to find out about something, they should ask their husbands at home. It is a disgraceful thing for a woman to speak in a church meeting.

The final portion of this scripture has been questioned over and over.  It tends to contradict Paul's message though out the bible, and in this section of scripture as well. Why would Paul said everyone need to take turns sharing with the group so they can learn and be uplifted - then say only means PART of the crowd that has gathered can do so?

One interesting note I took from the video was there was no law of submission at the time.  For me personally?  I thought of Ephesians 5.  That references submission right?  I found the problem with that is Ephesians had not even been written yet.  It would be at least 5-7 years down the road before it was written.  It was also interesting that there was no law about submission of women mentioned in the bible prior, and that for people causes confusion about this verse. 

They had mentioned that this portion of scripture is placed in different spots in different manuscripts they had found for scripture as well.  So was it intended to be placed here in the first place?  Why would he encourage everyone to share, and then say to the women to be silent?  There are plenty of theories.

To me one makes more sense when you view the nature of God, Jesus, and YES even Paul!  Paul speaks of order, and states that one person that is nudged by the Holy to either speak in tongues, prophecy, edify, etc you are to take turns.  If one speaks in tongues and no one can interpret?  Be silence.  It could mean that next time you get together for worship if you are nudged again someone WILL be able to interpret, and all can benefit from this.  It certainly doesn't mean sit down and hush forever!

I was reading a story from someone that had family in China, and they were missionaries.  This was a time in history when the Chinese women were kept at home, and their feet were bound for vanity purposes.  When the family came to hear the worship service these women didn't understand the Etiquette of worship.  They would be speaking to other women during the service to catch up on things.  Yes it was chaos!  When the worship service was finished?  A family member of the missionaries said something along the lines of, "WOW we are back in the Corith Church!"

I'm sure at the time some women understood the etiquette of worship, and others didn't know this.  I know at first when I learned about this I was thinking mostly Jewish women would be in attendance.  They had been in their section within the temples, and had viewed a form of etiquette.  I didn't stop to think about the fact they welcomed Gentiles at that point.  You had people from all walks of life attending these worship gatherings.  Some of course wouldn't have the first clue about etiquette of worship, and I can understand WHY they would ask them to be silent due to the chaos they would cause.

It was the same principal I had for my children when we were at church, and the bread and the wine were being presented.  I wanted to make sure my children understood WHY this was being done, and made sure they KNEW what they were doing.  I'm sure it looked FUN from the outside to them, but they needed to understand the meaning before I allowed them to participate.  They needed to be old enough to grasp this.  That was important to me, and I'm sure when they were young they didn't quite understand why MOM wasn't allowing them to participate in this 'fun time' at church.  I wanted them to be mature enough to understand.  It was more than, 'WOW we get to eat bread and drink grape juice this morning!" 

Anyway, it would make sense to me that until these women understand how to function within worship gatherings they were to keep silent.  I don't believe that Paul meant that women were to keep silent always, because we see women in the bible mentioned participating in ways they couldn't if they had to keep silent.

I realize some today use this verse to say if women do participate - and not be silent - THEY are in charge.  This is just plain silly.  Paul was asking people to take turns, and there wasn't anyone 'in charge' in that sense.  The principal to me for this worship was to grow in the faith, and not be IN charge.  They were there to edify each other, and to be led by the Holy Spirit.  Paul speaks in different places in the bible about women sharing and teaching the faith, and it wasn't about a power struggle as most like to present it.  It was to learn and to grow in the faith, and how much more important is that compared to some human realm of power.

This passage in scripture was speaking more on the orderly fashion that the worshipers should follow so that chaos didn't erupt, and also that people were not using the church for their own personal gains.  It speaks more about that, but there are those that tend to just concentrate on 'woman need to be silent and sit down'.  

If you think about that part?  They truly need to check their heart!  It tends to be more out of selfish motive, and its clear when they open their mouths to explain this passage.  Their motive is also spoken about in this passage.  When the Holy Spirit is moving inside of an individual, and it is shared?  God is blessing us with this message, and it is from HIM that it comes.  It truly has nothing to do with gender.

Modesty - its much more than clothes

I remember as a young girl the town next door just opened a sports center. My parents felt it would be a great idea for myself, and my brother to learn how to play tennis. The next thing I know I got a tennis racket for my birthday with Billie Jean King's autograph on it. It was actually pretty exciting for me at the time.

I remember the first day for my very FIRST tennis lesson. It was summer time, and my brother and I walked everywhere - or rode our bikes. I had my tennis racket in hand, and my tennis outfit my mother got me as well. I walked along the busy streets on the sidewalk to get to the indoor sports center where my lessons were being held.

The next thing I know is a car full of men were whistling and cat calling out to me. At that point I had already hit the area where there were many stores, and I remember this surge of fear at the time. I was looking around for a place of safety, and was afraid to finish my walk to the sports center for my lesson.

The next thing I know the street light changed on the main street I was trying to cross, and their car moved forward. I noticed they had made a U turn at their very first opportunity, and I ran into the department store on the other side of the street. I remember hiding behind the first display that was available, and at the same time watching to see if that car full of men would follow me into the store.

To say I was scared at the time was a huge under statement. My stomach was turning over in knots, and I was thinking of what my next move would be if they indeed came into the store I had just escaped into.

At the time behind all the stores in the area were farm fields behind them, or small areas of homes. I knew the sports center wasn't far at this point, and I decided I was going to finish my journey through the fields. I was to frighten to finish it along the main road.