Sunday, March 20, 2011

Double Standards is the true confusion!

Posted by Hannah at 12:45 PM

Double Standards
Double Standards isn't confusion
There is a plain double standards in some teachings.

A year or so ago I had posted a video with John Piper addressing domestic violence within a Christian marriage.  The question was, ‘What does submission look like if your spouse is abusive?”

I downloaded that video, and placed it on my youtube account because I didn’t wish to link to Piper’s site.

Recently, it has come to my attention that the video was brought down on the Desiring God website with no explanation at all.  My copy of this teaching on youtube may be the only one left online to access.  I have it on my hard drive in case that one disappears as well.

I have noticed over the years this video has infuriated people, and they use this on their own sites to speak out against the teaching that is not only na├»ve – but dangerous.

The confusion the CBMW speaks about to me isn’t based in gender, but in double standards.

When I originally wrote about John Piper’s video over submission and abuse?  I was very frustrated at that point, and my post went into a different direction.  I asked the readers to see if their children would write John Piper about their experiences living with an abusive parent.  Why?  I don’t think the spouse is taken seriously, nor are they heard.  I wanted to try a different direction to see if we could wake the sleeping giant in this area.

Here is the removed video I spoke about.

If you can't see video click here.


There is something WRONG with base teachings if you can show proper empathy towards an adult child when they struggle with how to ‘feel’ about abusive parents – and yet use all these different rabbits trails when it’s a spouse.

Here is the video for child of abuse. I have also placed the transcript in a blog post.

If you can't see the video click here

Don’t get me wrong I do appreciate his acknowledgment of the child’s pain, but when you give more meat and potatoes towards the child than you do the spouse?  Please don’t talk to me about how people are gender confused, and how people don’t know how to be a proper biblical man or woman in the proper biblical roles.



His response is like night and day, and that is far from proper.

Let’s look at some of the confusion over the double standards that are placed out there.
  • Broken heart shown at the beginning of the teaching video versus Sighs, giggles, and OH BOYS towards other group.
  • Approach this with the proper demeanor, and know that even with the proper demeanor hurtful things will be said – Versus reminding the woman she is to be in submission for the LORD’S sake.
  • Understanding the pain and frustration knowing that abusive parties may not acknowledge your pain or struggle, but will minimize it because they aren’t capable of dealing with it now.  The other party gets speeches about how they don’t know which type of abuse you are speaking of, and is handed paradoxical speeches that show 'sweetness' and respect of the biblical roles.
  • Shown scripture to help with unresolved issues, and the obvious hoped for resolution that didn't materialize.  The other side is told to take the verbal unkindness for a season, and even a slap before approaching the church for help.  Notice if a person is asking this question?  Chances are ‘seasons’ have already passed, but you realize this will be questioned.
  • Allow God to take this burden for you, and trust that he will handle it.  The offending person will be changed, or will go to hell.  The other side after being told to take the abuse for a while is now told to come to the church, and let them help you handle it.
  • And when it isn't resolved to your satisfaction, you take the pain and the injustice, you give it to God, and you don't hold it. You say, "I'm not going to be the judge anymore. I'm not going to be the jury anymore. I'm not going to be the executioner anymore. I'm going to be free!"   How does the other abused spouse handle this?  The way it is taught most of the time the above would be the same, but sadly on a daily basis with a little reminder about your submission for the Lord’s sake.  Notice no mention of going to hell?  I guess they feel they can't endorse that in this circumstance.
The Lord would give empathy and compassion towards both groups that John Piper was attempting to teach.  The abused children and abused spouse have very similar struggles, feelings, and confusion.

One is approached with a bit of reality, and the other is handed paradoxical speeches (his words not mine) to given about how SHE would love to follow his leadership.  Why?  According to Piper because it is possible.  Would it be helpful?  I guess that is better than being ‘hurtful’ even with the proper demeanor.  (the reality he gave the children)

Its examples like this that shows you the spiritual pixie dust that some are handed, while others are allowed to face reality up close and personal.  One is handed tools to help them deal with things properly that will bring them peace, while others are clearly not handed this gift at all.  Its there for them of course, but they aren't told of it in the same way.  Teachers go into different directions instead - this causes confusion. 

Abusers don’t need to have paradoxical speeches, but the same reminder that they are going down the avenue towards hell as well.  The path is no different, so why hand one party empathy and the other paradoxical speeches that aren’t paradoxical at all.  They are plain contradictory whether you want to admit it or not.  Its just is, and we both know it.


Gender confusion is the big issue of the day?  I think not.  The confusion is present due to double standards.

With the children you show them what God would have them do.  With the wives are you more worried about his leadership and authority that he NEEDS within his home.  Do people seriously think God is more worried about some threat of his role within the home in this fashion?  What is more important to God - biblical roles or the humans themselves?  When you use roles in this fashion you show motive, agenda, and loads of ego and pride.  His biblical ROLE isn't more important that SHE is to God.  The biblical role isn't even an aspect here.  Get REAL!

You are wrong here John Piper.  He doesn't need this form of paradoxical nonsense.  He needs to know his prayers are hindered by his behavior towards his family.  He needs to know that is NOT leadership.  His form of authority is evil, fleshy, and will hand him keys to the gates of Hell.  Just as the Christian parents he will find this hurtful, and he also will minimize or outright deny it.  Unlike John Piper God will not look at the different forms of abuse, and speak on how he isn't really SURE what the person is asking him.  He looks at them as sin, and hurtful towards this family.  That those actions do indeed separate the abusive spouse from his God.

Your paradoxical speech is lip service to his frail ego and pride.  Guess what?  TRUE men don't need that, nor are that threatened by TRUTH!  The abusive spouse needs help - not ego blasts.

It seems very clear you understand some of the dynamics of domestic violence.  The difference comes when there is lenses of MAN towards WOMEN  - and their biblical roles that turns your advice to downright degrading.  You struggle with the truth, because it may call his role as you teach it into question.  Does it really - or is that just your fear?

It could be that your 'gender confusion' is more like double standards.  Double standards is not truth.  Its not love.  Its not understanding.  Its sad when you can find compassion, and almost break down into tears with one teaching on the subject - but can't handle it properly towards the ones you are to love most right under God.

I actually do pray for you often John Piper.  I pray that your blue colored lenses are transformed to see all the different hues of this world.  There is so much more to see.


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5 comments:

Mara Reid on 1:24 PM said...

Another good one, Hannah.

It is so true.

They are sooooooo concerned with the splinter of gender confusion in the eyes of others they can't see the big, fat, log/beam sticking out of their own eyes called off-balanced, injust double standard.

They want that hiararchy in their favor soooooo bad, they don't mind justice being trampled underfoot in order to obtain the best seats in the synogogue.

Luke 11:42 woe to you Pharisees! For you pay tithe on mint and rue and every kind of garden herb, and yet disregard justice and the love of God...
Vs 42 Woe to you lawyers as well! For you weight men (Women!) down with burdens hard to bear, while you youselves will not even touch the burdens with one of your fingers.

Barbara on 3:55 AM said...

Thanks Hannah
The contrast is so clear, when you watch those two videos together. Intelligent, ethical advice and compassion for the adult who suffered child abuse; sub-ethical, dumb, syrupy advice for the adult who suffers of spouse abuse.

When I first watched Piper's video on spouse abuse, I thought it wasn't too bad. But the more time I watch it, the more it grates on me. Look at how he kinda sits up straight on his chair, like a kid in class who is trying to really impress the teacher, but knows he might not get the answer right.
And look at the hand gestures: several times he points his finger like a gun pointing. This gesture in itself is triggering for many victims of abuse. How little he understands!

Hannah on 7:05 AM said...

It is strange isn't it?

You know what the truth SHOULD be? The crisis that he speaks about wouldn't be there, and she wouldn't be confused about WHOM to show her submission to. You have someone that is clearly sinning against you and God the Father. There should be no crisis.

What is it about the teachings that that make people struggle so much in regards to this type of serious sin? What are we teaching people that would cause so much struggle?

For me? How do you honor parents that abused you would seem a common struggle. I'm not saying parents are regular abusers, but in life you do come across people that harm you. We all struggle in how to deal with that crisis in a way that would honor God. Its something we all should be able to relate to, but of course on different levels.

Piper clearly doesn't know what to do about an abusive husband, otherwise he wouldn't be going into some strange chat about sexual threesomes. With his authority in one hand, and his wife in the other? Its okay to hurt her, but not harm her. You know he wouldn't say that to anyone else. I think he needs to go back into his prayer closet, and listen to see if the Holy Spirit may lead him to rethink that a bit.

You can't tell your church that you help men become benevolent leaders, and say things like that...and expect no one to question your prospective. Its a contradiction to the max! You don't enforce your speeches about 'protecting' your family because it is your role as 'head', and say these types of things that clearly don't show what you claim to stand for.

Its confusing, its deceitful, and it clearly doesn't show 'equal but different roles'.

I seriously wonder if this poor man will truly ever get it. He will have to let go of his entitlement a bit in order to see it. He is like the rich man that wanted to follow Jesus, but couldn't give up his riches. I want to scream - put down your role and you will SEE!

I realize that won't happen. I'm a woman, and he doesn't have to listen to me - or any other woman besides his wife I guess. Sigh.

Anonymous said...

Typically, the abused wife is not offered a single choice so clear cut, and usually the church is not going to discipline the husband. If the church does discipline him, he will just go to another church more to his liking or drop out of church and order wife to follow him. And this advise is totally useless to the wife whose husband has already dropped out.

Peter spoke of submission to unbelieving husbands, but not abusive ones. An unbelieving but mentally and emotionally normal husband will respond positively when his wife is seeking to please him. In abuse situations, if you give him the tool (submission) he will ALWAYS claim she is not doing her part, she is not being submissive enough.

His advice to adults who were abused children was far more helpful and could even be applied to an abused wife. Perhaps there comes a time when she just plain turns her husband over to God to either be disciplined by Him until he repents or goes to hell. This may or may not mean leaving him, but if she does, the church should have compassion, and trust her that she is doing what is necessary for physical, emotional, and spiritual safety.

Hannah on 8:18 PM said...

I agree. They should have and show compassion, etc.

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