Thursday, April 30, 2009

Commercial showing the cycle of abuse

0 comments Posted by Hannah at 8:30 AM

I found this commercial online about the cycle of domestic violence or domestic abuse. It seems to be a series, and is made in more than one language. Instead of showing all the different videos I found one with all of them in a row. Its shows the story of how a son grew up with domestic violence, and the cycle continued in his generation.

Village of Men Domestic Violence PSA - English from Jon Strocel on Vimeo.

This commercial shows a man that was brave enough to get help for himself and his family...and stop the cycle of abuse within his family.

Wednesday, April 29, 2009

I'm Honored!

2 comments Posted by Hannah at 8:17 AM

Just Be Real Left me a note yesterday!

Hannah, I have an award waiting for you in the post "Just Be Real Award." Come by and take of it dear one!

Isn't it pretty? Talk about someone with talent there huh? I love those birds!

What a sweet honor - Thank you Just Be Real! I placed it on my sidebar as well! Everyone should go over to the blog, and check out the neat collection of blogs she has awarded to others as well! WHILE you are there - check out Just Be Real and as well!

Thank you Lets Be Real - I'm truly honored!

Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Another Pro Life Movement - Domestic Violence

3 comments Posted by Hannah at 4:10 PM

The Other Pro-Life Movement was an article I was reading on Today's Christian Woman. It was about: How to recognize and help rescue the battered women among us Authored by Corrie Cutrer.

Many years ago Catherine Clark Kroeger faced a decision that would influence her life's course. Serving alongside her pastor husband, Catherine became aware of a woman in her church whose husband was physically abusing her.

Incredibly, several influential church leaders discouraged Catherine from getting too involved. "To them, I was destroying the home by encouraging the woman to get away from the abuse," she remembers.

Then Catherine received a call from the battered woman's counselor, who said, "You've got to get either the husband or the wife out of the home, or you're going to have a murder."

So Catherine drove to the woman's house to pick her up and help her find shelter. "I decided preserving the life was more important at that time than preserving the family," Catherine says. It wasn't a popular choice among members of her congregation, but the woman likely is alive today because of it.

It amazes me that people value the marriage MORE the people within it! They can claim they don't all they wish to, but actions speak louder than words! For example, John wrote, “But whoever has the world’s goods, and beholds his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth” (1 John 3:17,18). If we say we love another believer but let him/her go on suffering when we have the ability to relieve his suffering, we don’t love him at all. Our actions contradict our words, and actions speak louder than words.

It was the first in a series of similar incidents that made Catherine realize the prevalence of domestic violence within Christian circles, and how women desperately need help. She went on to become a seminary professor, counselor at a local shelter, and coauthor of two books on domestic violence.

The National Coalition Against Domestic Violence reports that one in every four women will experience domestic violence in her lifetime. And this statistic often excludes incidents of emotional and sexual abuse that go untold.

Domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to women—more than cancer or traffic accidents. According to The American College of Obstetricians and Gyneco-logists, domestic violence is the cause of nearly a quarter million hospital visits every year.

When you look at the education seminars that are placed together with a faith aspect you notice whom is missing in actions within those meetings? Pastors. Clergy.

They can't tell me they are NOT aware of the stats out there that is harming countless men, women and children. They can't ignore how the cycle of violence is learned from one generation to other.

Its sad to see that women are leading this charge, and want to open the ears of the church! You see clergy close their minds, hearts, and ears to the message of oppression that so many people deal with in life. A small amount of BRAVE and HONORABLE men have decided to speak up, but what is sad to me? If men are the leaders why aren't they in great numbers, and leading the charge?

They say they care, but actions speak louder than words! James made a similar observation. “If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,’ and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works is dead, being alone” (James 2:15-17). We can say we know the Lord, but if we are indifferent to the needs of other Christians, our actions contradict our words, and actions speak louder than words.

In their book No Place for Abuse (IVP Books), Catherine and coauthor Nancy Nason-Clark reveal that 83 percent of American and Canadian clergy interviewed during a six-year study shared that at some point in their ministry they've counseled a woman who has an abusive spouse or partner. Additionally, Paula Silva, cofounder of Focus Ministries, a small Illinois-based organization that reaches out to battered women, reports that her ministry alone received 2,000 calls, e-mails, and visits in 2007 from Christian women in abusive situations seeking help.

"Saying that abuse isn't happening to women within the church is like saying sin doesn't happen," says Paula, who's also coauthored Violence Among Us: Ministry to Families in Crisis (Judson Press).

Catherine believes the church can create an environment where long-term abuse goes undetected. "Many churches today still promote a misplaced theology on the family where the husband's will always trumps the wife's, divorce is not an option, and submission is deeply misunderstood," she says. "We deny and minimalize abuse because we have this glorified concept of what the Christian family ought to be."

The article goes on to show the different forms of abuse, and it ended with:

Surprisingly, Paula says emotional abuse leaves the deepest scars in women. "It destroys the spirit," she says. "A woman tends to believe those false messages she's been told, even if she's out of the relationship. It's hard to shed the lies she's believed for so long."

That's why—regardless of the type of abuse—it's so important to get help.

Its strange to me how people realize they need to cherish the life of child, but it comes to the life of the mother? Actions speak louder than words.

Another Pro Life Movement - Domestic Violence - Please seek help with some of the resources listed on the sidebar of this blog if you need them.

Monday, April 27, 2009

Churches Becoming Shelters for Domestic Violence Victims

2 comments Posted by Hannah at 6:43 AM

I saw this story recently, and it was based in Hawaii, and I have to admit my jaded side came out. Churches Could Soon Become Shelters for Domestic Violence Victims?  

'Don't count on it' was my first reaction. I realize that isn't the best reaction, but it was coming from my GUT and experience.

KHON out of Hawaii mentioned due to huge budget cuts, etc they are looking to the church to help with this issue. They feel that it may cut close to the separation of church and state, but many other programs such as homelessness and food pantries are supplemented by churches. They hope the church will stand up and be counted, because its a HUGE need!

I hope they do to, but I wouldn't place any bets on it! You may get a couple of churches that did bother to educate themselves, but that's all you will get. A VERY small number!

Shelters need partnerships with churches

When I say this I normally get some examples of horror stories of their experiences with domestic violence shelters.

Before anyone gets upset with me lets keep in mind that not all shelters are alike. Some may have volunteers that are MORE trained than others, and some have alot of what I call newbies to the field. I wouldn't give up on a shelter after just one phone call in most cases. Chances are you may have had ONE person that wasn't your cup of tea. Personality conflicts and uneducated volunteers/staff do happen, but that doesn't always make up the whole organization. Call back and try to speak to someone else!  Be daring and ask for a manager!

Families that are dealing with domestic violence need spiritual help along with help in the realm of safety. We need churches that don't get paranoid when right away about a certain divorce in the future, and ONLY set their eyes to quickly on restoration and reconciliation. They need to stick with the 'safety' portion for now. Shelter's ask for help from churches all the time, and are ignored. That's plain sinful in my eyes!

BUT IS SECULAR! (shutter)

Churches, pastors at times have a really hard time thinking of how a 'secular' domestic violence shelter can help them. Goodness knows I have heard all kinds of opinions! The one I tend to hear the most? Its full of feminists that tell you to tear apart your family! That's not the purpose of the shelter! The first purpose is safety.  Divorce, separation or staying together must always be the decision of the victim.  These shelters aren't there to tell people how to run their lifes.

They can give resources, but REMEMBER its not their job to tell people what to do. Part of healing is learning proper decision making skills, and its a way of getting your sense of self respect back! You are the only one that knows your life well enough to make the decisions that work.

Most shelters know if you talk someone into leaving - since they are in a emotional state - the chances of them coming down off that emotional state and returning to danger is likely to happen. That decision for safety can't come from the workers! It has to come from the victim!

If you look at it from that common sense stand it shows how that myth that is spread around in churches is just that...a MYTH!

Lack of support from churches HAS to change!

betrayal. domestic violence pastorsMy shelter was located in a fairly large town of a couple hundred thousand people, and it has a TON of churches there! Our shelter helps a huge area, and that means it serves than its own local community its located in.

They started to market their services and education to build relationships, so pastors and their churches had the tools to deal with domestic violence. The shelter taking on the safety portion, and the church taking the spirituality portion.

They not only wanted to help, but education from churches as well.

They needed a game plan on HOW they could work together, and all the rest of the dynamics that come into play during a crisis. Most shelters are open to this. They wanted plans they could both work with. This relationship needed to be built, because neither side could do justice by themselves. No one can be experts in everything...NOR should be!

You know how many faith based organizations - that included not just Christians responded? I think it was three. THREE!

The shelter didn't give up, and they are still there letting churches know they are ready when they are. They had a few other churches that were really scared about what they were dealing with (domestic violence within their church), and just couldn't get past that fear of working outside the church. They don't know what happened to those women, men and children.  They wanted that cycle to stop, and this was the purpose of this relationship.

I will say they at least have a handful of what I call 'safe' churches to send people to that need their faith based advice and guidance. To me? That's disgusting...only a few.

Domestic Violence - What every Pastor needs to know!

I have to wonder if most pastors truly pay attention to the title of that book. If they do and see its about domestic violence and the church? I wonder how many more place it back on the shelf and keep looking.

Al MilesAl Miles is a Pastor that speaks out and tries to educate pastors about domestic violence. He will attend conferences to speak on this subject, and guess who is normally missing in the audience? You GOT IT! The Pastors the church that invited him!

He speaks in the book about how he is invited to speak at churches, but again WHO do you think was missing on the days he was there to speak? YOU GOT IT.... The PASTORS!

He started a policy that he would agree to speakat their church only IF the pastors would agree to attend the conferences as well.  What would happen in the past that made him change this policy?  They would be there at the start, but would disappear shortly afterwards. They had 'emergencies' ALWAYS! The stranger part of this? No emergencies would happen when he was asked to speak on other topics. Hmmmm. Mysterious huh?

He was asked to come to Wisconsin to speak one year, and the coordinators of the event sent out 1,200 invitations to clergy...and personally followed UP!  When they day came of the event he asked the clergy to stand up to identify themselves.  Out of 135 people that were present less than 10 were pastors.  

This is what motivated him to start to write this book about domestic violence. His outrage over the avoidance of this issue.

He wanted to know WHY that was! It would have to start he assumed with interviews, and he figured they would ask him about his qualification and position on domestic violence. That would make sense to most.  Sadly most were more concerned with his position on roles, doctrinal issues, denomination background, authority of scripture, divorce, homosexuality, how long has he been born again. No one seems to care about the issues surrounding his views on domestic violence within the church. Can we say pigeon hole?!


I read a number of faith boards online, and also do alot of reading within the faith realm outside of the online world. I see alot of pastor comments about how this isn't happening within THEIR church! I was appalled at one clergy mentioning that they don't need to deal with 'social ills' of society. Others that mentioned they have encountered domestic violence decided they fixed the issue in their congregation toot sweet! As I watched them clear this off the discussion realm quickly you had to wonder how they did 'fix this' ya know? Most of the responses? Denial was the strongest I have seen anywhere.

Pastor Al Miles it seems had alot of the same during his interviews with 158 clergy. He even mentioned if you hand them resources, and make sure you follow up with them and insist on a meeting so they will at least READ the material! You got it ... he found most didn't take the time to look at the resources!

He was nicer in his book, but the attitude he speaks of is what frustrates me the most. Where are all the pastors? That is what everyone asks when education is offered, help is extended...and pastors never come. Something is seriously WRONG with this picture!

Clergy need to be a safe resource for those that are abused

Clergy need to read more of the stories and comments left on this blog. Most of the time clergy aren't a safe resource, and I have to tell you that was one of the biggest betrayals I experienced in my life.

We tell our children the church is a safe, and alot of people engulf themselves in this bubble. We will have fellowship, accountability, and those that pray and help support us in troubling times.

When it comes to emotional abuse, verbal abuse, sexual abuse...well domestic violence within the church in general pastors have failed their flocks! I felt lied to and as if I had been kicked in the stomach. They aren't safe most of the time, and I feel awful telling victims to be VERY careful if they choose to approach their church.

sad domestic violence pastors
People tell us we should have seen the red flags.
We should have known better.
We should have been more careful with whom we married.
We made our bed and now we need to lay in it.

What I find very frustrating is how small the amount of men that are brave enough to face this issue without all the excuses. They ask survivors to be stronger, pray more, have more faith ... yet their faith within this realm is clearly more lacking than ours.

Fear and denial on their part is much stronger than what they ask of survivors. I hate to say this but it seems survivors faith seems to be stronger than the pastors that we ask help from.

We are asked to ENDURE the abuse, and we DO! We strive to be better spouses. We try to grasp on to the words, 'he will not give you more than you can bare' because the church is to cowardly to help. That's the truth!

The parroted scripture and the fact you can read on MOST church denomination statements on their stands on domestic violence...and how their pastors don't follow it shows that clearly most aren't safe! Its easy to write the statement out, but harder to follow up and actually DO IT! It pains me to say there is more lip service than action. Its truth that hurts deeply.

Churches Becoming Shelters for Domestic Violence Victims? I wonder if that miracle could happen in my lifetime.

Saturday, April 25, 2009

It Takes Two To Tango!

9 comments Posted by Hannah at 9:32 AM

I have heard and read way to often the 'two to tango' phrase when people were confronted by hurtful cruel acts of a person acting abusive. Remember ABUSE IS A PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR! I will admit at times early before I knew what I was dealing with I tended to engage with abusive people when I should have just choose another form of communication.

I don't know how many times I have heard people state to others that they don't have to fight. You make a choice NOT TO! What people didn't realize is that can backfire on you as well. It reminds me of the time in school in which a bully approached me in the lunch room, and I spoke to my mother about my fear. She told me I had a choice to turn and walk away. I told her this person would jump me at that point. Instead of acknowledging that point she told me not to be silly about this.

I think I learned from childhood how to detach from a situation, and I have to say it has its place. I won't tell you its the best way to handle things. I don't believe it is. I remember taking the advice about how to make that choice NOT to fight. I was then accused of ignoring, withdrawing, etc.

I was then told that I needed to use boundaries. No matter what HOLD your line! I wasn't asking for anything unreasonable. I was asking for communication without raging, name calling, blameshifting, etc. I learned a new lesson:

When you are again thrown off balance by your difficult person's words or again get to relearn that hard lesson that is inevitably learned by everyone who tries to get close to a fool: To love a fool is like hugging a fan; you will only be sliced up in the process.

This 'it takes two to tango' really confused me at that point. Okay. I have tried all the above, and much MORE! Him? If you look at that portion you will see that most people are cowards on that front. They did not fear my reaction to their advice, but it seems they were of his! Instead of acknowleding his behavior for what it was I was asked to 'change myself' only. I was given no validation that what he was doing was wrong. If it was mentioned it was pretty much in passing.

I have to wonder HOW people are to grow as others wish them to, and change in a way that is healthy when you can't acknowledge the dynamic that is there? I didn't fight back, and I got thrashed for it. I walked away and I got jumped just like the child in the lunch story I mentioned. I detached and I did see him for what he was, and I learned pretty quick at that point that the world COULDN'T!

Quote by Nancy Edwards that moved me.

Jesus is good and pure; our motives are always mixed.
Jesus speaks words of life; we speak words that protect our own sense of reality.
Jesus loves sinners and judges sin; we judge sinners and ignore sin.
Jesus is wise; we are dogmatic.
Jesus sees people’s hearts; we see their defenses.
Jesus is very attractive to needy people; we are often the last place they would come.

I remember that hint of blame towards me when I woke up. You know the saying! YOU are just looking for the easy way OUT! It takes TWO to TANGO!

You know how that made me feel?

It Takes Two To Tango

I figured out that their answers were setting me up to lose. I could never win or even make any headway if they couldn't acknowledge the evil I was dealing with. I couldn't make it better if I molded myself into their perfect person that didn't do the dance of the tango. If I learned to NOT FIGHT, and detach myself from the venom and used boundaries ... take wouldn't change the dynamics.

If you can't acknowledge evil behavior you are just enabling it!

Sanctuary for the Abused had an article today that linked to another article called, Blaming the Victim of Narcissism.

Barbara at Sanctuary for the Abused had a comment to her post that I wanted to share:

A group of guerrilla fighters burst into an evangelical church, during Sunday service, in South America. "Everyone who proclaims to Love the Christ, must stay and be shot! the rest of you can leave."

Within minutes the church was nearly empty. The congregation exited out the windows and doors. In the end, only 3 remained; waiting to be killed.

The guerrilla fighters immediately threw down their guns and proclaimed:
"My fellow BRETHREN! now that we have rid ourselves of the hypocrites, let us worship our Lord in Truth!"

I think we all wonder if we would be the ones that fled, or the ones that stayed don't you think?

The three that remained at times remind me of the percentage of church goers that will acknowledge the dynamics of domestic violence in its true form. I look at the ones that preached to me about how I need to change myself, and yet they were afraid to acknowledge what was truly happening to me were hypocrites as well.

I have seen and heard from so many people feeling that they can't worship the Lord in Truth, because in their world there isn't any. People have told them they are JUST as evil, and they are looking for the easy way out. They are told to change themselves, and don't worry about your spouse. They see these huge hurtles and large mountains...and they are tired...they don't know if they can prove themselves any longer. They just aren't good enough for Jesus. The spirit is being stripped, and their sense of self worth is disappearing all together. They hear we are rags compared to Jesus..but that rag has an extra meaning that others can't comprehend. People stop them from feeling the love, compassion and mercy. I don't think those that are ignorant realize what a stumbling block they are handing these suffering people, nor do those people choose to view it to close either.

Barbara's article today is quoted as saying:

Since when is it good to be friendly with bad people? Since when is winking at their wrongdoing a virtue?

Perhaps someone can quote chapter and verse in the comments, because holier-than-thous really deserve to have their religion's true teachings show what frauds their twisting of religious doctrine makes them.

In the New Testament, in Revelations, I believe, in one of the letters to the churches, some holier-than-thou Christians are read the riot act for that very same pretense.

The author unloads both barrels at them with this truth: "Good people are not lukewarm toward evil.' Its says.

Cowards Are.

The article she linked to began:

The first thing the victims of narcissists need to know is that they are not to blame.

Not one bit.

In other words, he didn't get mad because dinner was was late. She didn't blow up because you are "too this" or "too that." You didn't "ask for it" by speaking up and saying that you deserved some attention and respect.

The narcissist attacked you just because you are there, period. Don't you have a right to be there?

Let's get real. Narcissists think they have a right to punish you just for being the way you are. Think, don't you have the right to be the way you are? Do you have to be some character in the narcissist's fiction that conforms to his or her specifications?

Does that make any sense? That's as hateful as the crime against humanity of attacking people just for being a certain KIND or nationality.

The narcissist attacks because he or she is a predator, period. Predators attack any vulnerable prey that crosses their sights, period. Therefore, the prey is NEVER the one bit to blame.

It would make as much sense to blame a sheep for getting attacked by a wolf. So what if the wolf says, "I attacked her because she is an obnoxious sheep!" What idiot falls for that line? Yet narcissist sympathizers are doing precisely this and are therefore being irrational.

The narcissist attacked just to do it, and he or she attacks any prey they have some unfair advantage over. They never pick a fair fight. They are bullies, period.

If people tell you that it takes two to tango...ask them when the behavior of the abuser would be acceptable? When is it acceptable to attack with rage, wrath, name calling, blameshifting? Why would they think their mininizing of that fact would be acceptable to Jesus? Would Jesus say it takes two to tango, or would he call out evil for what it is!

Sunday, April 19, 2009

Online Abuse Support Boards

2 comments Posted by Hannah at 9:41 AM

I mentioned a new Online Abuse Support board a couple of months ago, and they have now started a home page and permanent address. Our Place has a new address, and I would encourage those readers that could use some real time support to go and check it out.

They recently put a page up that speaks about some of the adminstrators, under the Who Are We? page, and also have a quick link to the forum.

I personally have found alot of the contributors very helpful to me, along with so many others. They do have a faith section as well.

If you feel that you could use some support, and you are not clear where to turn I would encourage you to come to Our Place. There are also other places of support that I have listed in the past, and have tried to post them in the link section of my blog. This has a been a good place for support of abused women, support of abused husbands, and YES there has been children there was well! They have had people from all walks of life come there, and many discussions about abuse and your faith.

If you feel isolated and alone please find a way to reaching out to find some sort of support. This is online abuse support board, but its just one step to helping find healing in your life! If write about domestic violence, emotional abuse, verbal abuse, sexual abuse I would personally appreciate you taking a look at this board, and then spreading some link love to get the word out!


Deborah's Song at one time was named, "Jesus Heals Abuse".  Pastor Jacky Hughes runs the board, and she also has very helpful staff to help.

Focus Ministries also has an online forum for support.  I do believe you will have to email first in order to gain entry.  Its a security measure.

Hide Out - Site For Children
Hide Out is a site for the support of children.

Friday, April 17, 2009

Escape Button

0 comments Posted by Hannah at 1:26 PM

I made an escape button today. When you click on that escape button you will be sent to

I figured I would share the html in case anyone else wished to place that on their blog.

Click on the graphic below to understand what I'm talking about!


I have placed the html code in a scroll box below, and all you have to do is copy it and paste it into a html gadget for blogger.
Delete the
< br />
at the beginning, and the

< br /> at the end. I can't figure out HOW to delete it!

Use your notepad program on your computer to do this. Other programs strip the html in a way that is NOT use able.

Friday, April 10, 2009

Emotional Abuse and Your Faith Interviewed

2 comments Posted by Hannah at 4:02 PM

Recently, Waneta Dawn author of Behind the Hedge and myself (Hannah Thomas) of Emotional Abuse and Your Faith were interviewed on Blog Talk Radio by Sista Girl Speaks Up. She also had on her show two gentlemen: James Walker and Pastor Arthur Thompson.

I thought I would post it in case anyone was interested in listening to us speak about domestic violence within the church.

Sunday, April 05, 2009

Wives, Submit to your Husbands?

12 comments Posted by Hannah at 1:14 PM

I saw a video posted on YouTube that I wanted to share. It was a man that was responding to something he said joking around, and someone took it really serious. He was then reminded of his leadership and authority within the home. He was joking about pets in the family, and how certain dogs were HIS and the others were his wifes! He was being humorous. Here is his response about how men can take advantage of certain verses - even about Wives, Submit to your Husbands! He was addressing the person reminding him about his authority.

There always seems to one that has to bring up the verse in Genesis (3:16), and how God placed the order down there. I have to scratch my head in confusion everytime someone does this. We are talking about a curse - which I would assume to MOST people would be mean 'bad' no? The man will rule over her being a curse, and yet it is used as tool to have women obey men seems to contradicts how you are to deal with curses.

I mean if you know God had cursed someone do we use that curse to your advantage? Is that correct? People can say that is a consequence. Okay. So what are they saying? God says its okay to take advantage of people's consequences then? We are talking about personal responsibilities and not something wartime here by the way!

Part of that passage speaks about pain in childbirth as well. Are we in sin when we use things to sooth that pain as well? I mean some ladies use breathing, exercise among other things to make the pain of childbirth more tolerable.

Why is it acceptable to ease childbirth, and then go in a completely different direction for the 'rule over' part? I mean we wish to EASE the curse of the pain of childbirth, and then use the 'rule over' you as something you don't wish to ease? So lets ease one portion of the curse and NOT the other! Does that make sense to anyone else?

The bible calls for the man to love his wife. We see scripture has a definition of what love is:

1 Corinthians 13:1-13 GW I may speak in the languages of humans and of angels. But if I don't have love, I am a loud gong or a clashing cymbal. (2) I may have the gift to speak what God has revealed, and I may understand all mysteries and have all knowledge. I may even have enough faith to move mountains. But if I don't have love, I am nothing. (3) I may even give away all that I have and give up my body to be burned. But if I don't have love, none of these things will help me. (4) Love is patient. Love is kind. Love isn't jealous. It doesn't sing its own praises. It isn't arrogant. (5) It isn't rude. It doesn't think about itself. It isn't irritable. It doesn't keep track of wrongs. (6) It isn't happy when injustice is done, but it is happy with the truth. (7) Love never stops being patient, never stops believing, never stops hoping, never gives up. (8) Love never comes to an end. There is the gift of speaking what God has revealed, but it will no longer be used. There is the gift of speaking in other languages, but it will stop by itself. There is the gift of knowledge, but it will no longer be used. (9) Our knowledge is incomplete and our ability to speak what God has revealed is incomplete. (10) But when what is complete comes, then what is incomplete will no longer be used. (11) When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, and reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I no longer used childish ways. (12) Now we see a blurred image in a mirror. Then we will see very clearly. Now my knowledge is incomplete. Then I will have complete knowledge as God has complete knowledge of me. (13) So these three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the best one of these is love.

So if you look at the above definition of what God says is love why comments like, "Someone has to be in charge! He gave men that responsibility!" Its in the bible that women are to 'obey' us. We are the HEAD and have the last word! I mean does 'ruling over her' mean love? Do that line up with the scripture we find? Sounds like pride and arrogance to me!

I don't take issue with men and women within marriage yielding to one another. I mean that makes sense for harmony doesn't it? Does 'ruling over her' do the same thing? It would seem it would cause disharmony within the relationship, but so many men feel entitled to that. They claim they are the LEADERSHIP within the home! Remember SOMEONE has to be in charge right? We need to look to scripture for the definition of leadership!

Matthew 20:20-28 GW Then the mother of Zebedee's sons came to Jesus with her two sons. She bowed down in front of him to ask him for a favor. (21) "What do you want?" he asked her. She said to him, "Promise that one of my sons will sit at your right and the other at your left in your kingdom." (22) Jesus replied, "You don't realize what you're asking. Can you drink the cup that I'm going to drink?" "We can," they told him. (23) Jesus said to them, "You will drink my cup. But I don't have the authority to grant you a seat at my right or left. My Father has already prepared these positions for certain people." (24) When the other ten apostles heard about this, they were irritated with the two brothers. (25) Jesus called the apostles and said, "You know that the rulers of nations have absolute power over people and their officials have absolute authority over people. (26) But that's not the way it's going to be among you. Whoever wants to become great among you will be your servant. (27) Whoever wants to be most important among you will be your slave. (28) It's the same way with the Son of Man. He didn't come so that others could serve him. He came to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many people."

Does that sounds like SOMEONE has to be in charge? Jesus said that we are NOT to have absolute authority over people, and yet it is preached to often that MEN are to have that authority. Wives, SUBMIT to your HUSBANDS! Absolute authority in some denominations - yet Jesus says that is NOT to be SO! I would assume because it goes against his defination of love!

Someone recently called to my attention Landover Baptist church. Its NOT a real church. In fact it tends to mock the counterdictions they see within the church, and BOY does it make the church MAD!

The church can make all the excuses they want about how that ISN'T what they mean in those scriptures! That is HOW some men view them, and what the author of the first video's point was! YET others seem to have this URGE to remind us of Genesis 3:16.

Some men claim due to Eve being the first to sin that is way things are the way the are! Can I giggle back and remind them WHOM was the first to lie? It wasn't Eve! Adam lied and tried to NOT take responsibility for his actions. Funny how the 'Eve' portion you hear alot about, but that Adam characteristic? WELL - that so does NOT apply does it? (No. I don't think all men are like that! NOR do I think all women are easily deceived!)

To me those that push the WIVES submit to your husband, because EVE was easily deceived so that makes all women so...and that is WHY we must 'rule over' you crowd pretty dangerous. I mean if they believe that do they believe men tend to be lairs and blame shifters? If so, what makes them good leaders? You can't use ONE portion of scripture and NOT use the other in the same WAY!

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