Wednesday, October 19, 2005

Charles Crismier questions is your domestic violence situation REALLY dangerous??

Posted by Hannah at 12:26 PM

Attorney/Author/Pastor Charles Crismier aired a third broadcast on his national radio show Viewpoint entitled
REMARRIAGE, ADULTERY AND HOPE on his website, and his comments about domestic violence are just awful!
You can listen here uploaded to internet archieve, and this is part ONE of Marriage, Divorce and Hope

I was listening today to a link that someone posted about Marriage, Divorce and Re-marriage. I will agree with some of his points, but here is a person that I am sure thinks he is helping…but is actually enabling people to sin! I mean here is what he had to say about abusive relationships… It starts about 23 minutes into the program.

If you are in a Physically Abusive situation… AND…Make sure it truly IS a physically abusive…DANGEROUS!!! I mean really DANGEROUS!! Not just what you call “emotionally” dangerous…REALLY, TRULY DANGEROUS! I don’t think Jesus expects you to sit in that relationship and in the presence of that DANGERGOUS person until that “thing” can be dealt with! But that doesn’t mean that you have the opportunity to go and divorce the person! There is a difference between not continually exposing yourself in the physical proximity of the person until they are dealt with and DIVORCING THEM! You don’t have to divorce them to get out of their presence! DO YOU?? No. And if we are told to forgive than we MUST continually leave ourselves open to RECONILE! In fact what we are called is ministers of reconciliation aren’t we?? That is our VERY ministry! And where does that begin? In our marriages!

LOL he goes on to compare that to his own marriage when his wife told him she didn't love him anymore. They of course worked things out. His regular martial issues can't be compared to those dealing with domestic abuse!

Why speak on the subject when you clearly know nothing about the dynamnics. I was outraged! The link today is to his website. The bible does not say we are to continually reconcile ourselves with a dangerous person! You can forgive them without having that portion! Another problem? Normally people aren't going to deal with that THING that is committing domestic abuse. Do you have to divorce? I guess in not all circumstances, but at times it is out of safety issues more than trying to sin.

If he can't grasp the dynamics of an abusive personality he needs to stop speaking about it! Emotional abuse and verbal abuse can be just as dangerous, and it can lead into the aspect of domestic violence he is speaking of! The part that struck me was no real concentration on healing either party of this abusive marriage! Just forgive and reconcile! Can you say BLECK??!!!! To me this is a form of religious abuse when people don't understand things, and decide to make up their own minds. I'm sure in this sermon he felt he addressed domestic violence or domestic abuse, but he clearly never really address violence against women in any true form. I think he would give even more dangerous advice to men sadly!

I don't have a problem with repenting and forgiveness. He skates very close to telling people to divorce their present spouse to go back to the abusive one. He tells a caller that he is be truly repentive of his adultreous act, and do what God would call him to do. He addresses the same towards the abusive spouse. He just wanted to make use it was DANGEROUS enough!

The Pastor continued with part two, and she spoke of the women at the well. The part that confused me is he stated Jesus didn't condemn her, but told her GO and SIN NO MORE! I have checked a couple of versions of the bible, and in NO version did I see him saying ANYTHING close to that! He said that to the woman that was going to be stoned, but not the woman at the well! She was so convicted by what he said she went running to get the whole neighborhood. She turned from her ways, because he condemned her lovingly!

Joh 4:7 A woman of Samaria came to get water, and Jesus said to her, Give me some water.
Joh 4:8 For his disciples had gone to the town to get food.
Joh 4:9 The woman of Samaria said to him, Why do you, a Jew, make a request for water to me, a woman of Samaria? She said this because Jews have nothing to do with the people of Samaria.
Joh 4:10 In answer Jesus said, If you had knowledge of what God gives freely and who it is who says to you, Give me water, you would make your prayer to him, and he would give you living water.
Joh 4:11 The woman said to him, Sir, you have no vessel and the fountain is deep; from where will you get the living water?
Joh 4:12 Are you greater than our father Jacob who gave us the fountain and took the water of it himself, with his children and his cattle?
Joh 4:13 Jesus said to her, Everyone who takes this water will be in need of it again:
Joh 4:14 But whoever takes the water I give him will never be in need of drink again; for the water I give him will become in him a fountain of eternal life.
Joh 4:15 The woman said to him, Sir, give me this water, so that I may not be in need again of drink and will not have to come all this way for it.
Joh 4:16 Jesus said to her, Go, get your husband and come back here with him.
Joh 4:17 In answer, the woman said, I have no husband. Jesus said to her, You have said rightly, I have no husband:
Joh 4:18 You have had five husbands, and the man you have now is not your husband: that was truly said.
Joh 4:19 The woman said to him, Sir, I see that you are a prophet.
Joh 4:20 Our fathers gave worship on this mountain, but you Jews say that the right place for worship is in Jerusalem.
Joh 4:21 Jesus said to her, Woman, take my word for this; the time is coming when you will not give worship to the Father on this mountain or in Jerusalem.
Joh 4:22 You give worship, but without knowledge of what you are worshipping: we give worship to what we have knowledge of: for salvation comes from the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the time is coming, and is even now here, when the true worshippers will give worship to the Father in the true way of the spirit, for these are the worshippers desired by the Father.
Joh 4:24 God is Spirit: then let his worshippers give him worship in the true way of the spirit.
Joh 4:25 The woman said to him, I am certain that the Messiah, who is named Christ, is coming; when he comes he will make all things clear to us.
Joh 4:26 Jesus said to her, I, who am talking to you, am he.
Joh 4:27 At that point the disciples came back, and they were surprised to see him talking to a woman; but not one of them said to him, What is your purpose? or, Why are you talking to her?
Joh 4:28 Then the woman put down her water-pot and went into the town, and said to the people,
Joh 4:29 Come and see a man who has been talking to me of everything I ever did! Is it possible that this is the Christ?
Joh 4:30 So they went out of the town and came to him.
Joh 4:31 While this was taking place, the disciples were saying to Jesus, Master, take some food.
Joh 4:32 But he said to them, I have food of which you have no knowledge.
Joh 4:33 So the disciples said one to another, Did anyone give him food?
Joh 4:34 Jesus said, My food is to do the pleasure of him who sent me and to make his work complete.
Joh 4:35 You would say, Four months from now is the time of the grain-cutting. Take a look, I say to you, at the fields; they are even now white for cutting.
Joh 4:36 He who does the cutting now has his reward; he is getting together fruit for eternal life, so that he who did the planting and he who gets in the grain may have joy together.
Joh 4:37 In this the saying is a true one, One does the planting, and another gets in the grain.
Joh 4:38 I sent you to get in grain which you had no hand in planting: other men did that work, and you take the reward.
Joh 4:39 Now a number of the people of that town had faith in him because of the woman's witness: He has been talking to me of everything I ever did.
Joh 4:40 So when the people came to him they made request to him to be among them for a time, and he was there two days.
Joh 4:41 And a great number more of them came to have faith in him because of what he himself said.
Joh 4:42 And they said to the woman, Now we have faith, but not because of your story: we ourselves have given ear to his words, and we are certain that he is truly the Saviour of the world.
Joh 4:43 And after the two days he went on from there into Galilee.

He spoke of a letter from a women that was so convicted that she left her present marriage, and divorced because of a prior marriage. She will stay single for the rest of her days out of obeying the word of God. How he placed her story in a special spot on his website. That website is, and I'm not going to link to it. I don't agree with alot of their teachings there.

He spoke of another letter he received from a man that was abandoned by his wife for another man it sounds like. His wife committed adultery it was clear. He had been single for a long time, and told him according to his teaching he will never be allowed to have a intimate relationship again. His time is done. To bad for him. The pastor mocks him pretty much, and told him that it was NOT his teaching but the bible's teaching. He claims he wasn't making fun of him, and then calls him a liar for claiming he never read this in the bible. Told the audience that he must say this, because otherwise his children and grandchildren will sent to eternal damnation. So now again - our place in heaven depends on our family members before us? I thought it was dependent on our own actions!

Twists at the end a statement about domestic violence comment when a women stated that if you are being beaten RUN to a shelter! He mocked her and told his audience she was telling the women it was okay to remarry. I don't know HOW he got that out of what was said. It was interesting Mr. Crismier at times, and you may have come points....but you clearly are way off in others!

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existentialist on 2:40 PM said...

Yes this is outrageous, and this is the same fundamentalist rhetoric I have heard regarding my marriage. I DETEST it. It is so nice to meet a non-fundamentalist born again Christian. Why today somebody on Alternet implied that I was a fundamentalist. That is like THE worst insult you can give me.
Thanks for speaking out.

Anonymous said...

Physical abuse is not the only form of abuse. Verbal and emotional abuse are the same, except in the form. They all cause the same agony and are killers of the spirit (and sometimes the body). Shame on your ignorance. Any women who listens to your "advice" is jeopardizing her physical, spiritual and emotiona health. I'm Catholic and this abuse is intolerable - no matter what form. Get out. God does not want you to suffer. Perhaps the abuser may learn (probably not) that when you abuse women, they leave you. This may cause them to examine themselves and their spirituality and their phoniness in the face of God.

Hannah on 10:47 AM said...

LOL I hope you are addressing the broadcast when you said, "Shame on your ignorance. Any women who listens to your "advice" is jeopardizing her physical, spiritual and emotional health."

It' not the site's opinion it was the link to the sermon that mentioned this. I agree with the rest of what you said tho!

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