Wednesday, May 18, 2005

One discussion online! What do you think??

Posted by Hannah at 5:16 PM

This was a discussion I had on a faith board. Here are some bits and peices...what do you think? Comment section at end of posting - or bottom of website

I didn’t want to change the subject of the other thread to another direction. LOL So I will start another one! The other thread spoke about his wife cheating and leaving and now living with another person. To me that is abandonment and adultery so he has every right to file for divorce (from what he wrote so far). She has broken the vows taken within the relationship and crushed them beyond belief! I understand his hesitation also. It seems sometimes you get nailed with so many opinions about things that you really don’t know what is right. I try to sit back and take all others out of my mind, and think of what Jesus/God would say to the person. Even if she did make the decision to come back after all she did it was be very hard for him to regain the trust to rebuild the relationship on. We aren’t perfect after all, and at times I think others can crush your spirit so badly that there is a point of no return. I know that sounds like you don’t have enough faith, but we are talking human nature here. Someone else doesn’t understand that? LOL he made us!

I want to change the subject and direction a little. There are promises that are made when people get married. What part of the covenant or promises that are broken ARE and ARE NOT worthy of separating over that may end in divorce? I’m not talking little annoyances or being ugly on occasion. I’m talking flat out – I don’t care – deal with it – this is me and I am NOT going to change breaks. The types of things that are done to erode the other person. Things done just to hurt. We all have uglies in our relationships. That is a given! I’m not talking about those types of things. We all have our bad days or periods in which we all can be HIGH MAINTANCE! LOL! I understand Jesus said to forgive 7 times 70 times. I think about the thread with this man having to deal with 400+ cheating situations if that were the case! Your spouse has to totally humiliate you 400+ times before you can even think about the situation. If not adultery think of other awful, ugly things – I’m talking more than he ticked me off because he left his underwear on the bathroom floor again okay! LOL! We speak of abandonment and adultery as breaking everything apart, and that is the only reason you have unless you wish to sin. I read my bible I see all kinds of things that he feels is ugly. Things that will break down and tear people apart, but people tend to NOT include those within a marriage. YES this is wrong – EXCEPT if you have a certificate of marriage. LOL then we will question your faith when you say we have reached that point of no return! Those situations DON’T apply once you have entered into marriage, and you must not walk away like Jesus and his followers did.

I agree that you may in certain circumstances have to take on a little more than you felt you would at times, but again I’m talking unreasonable expectations of certain circumstances. It seems all applies EXCEPT if your spouse is doing this – then you must deal with it some way. I tend to really question this. I really do. I wonder at times if people don’t take the “spirit” of what is being said in the bible, and refuse to apply it to other circumstances. “Yes the bible did say this, that or the other thing, but they don’t apply to your situation at all. The only mention of your situation is THIS! So that is all that applies here!” Okay then. LOL doesn’t make much sense to me.

LOL I know I know you want a scripture reference or story here! Okay I look to Judges 19. This story is of rape and murder and totally ignores any hope or grace. LOL I realize it is part of an ongoing saga okay! Just part of the story and history here, but I just want to stick to THIS part of the saga! I realize this woman in the story is first talked about as the concubine – but then he is also referred to as her husband and son in law also! At that time a concubine was also referred to as the second wife if the first was couldn’t produce a child to carry on the family for example among others! It doesn’t mean just an ugly woman in other words! Yes it does sound like she had an affair and moved back with Daddy because she wasn’t happy. The husband at that point decided to come and woo her back. She was basically dropped pretty much from the story after hubby reached Daddy’s house, and YES she did go back home with him after the father and husband made the decision! On the way back home they stopped at a place for the night, and people from the surrounding town (men) came and said send him out so that we would have our way with him! They refused of course, and what ended up happening is this man sent his wife out instead. They raped her and her broken body ended up on the doorway of the place they were staying. He woke up the next morning walked over her and basically said WILL YOU hurry up its time to leave now! When he figured out she wouldn’t move he placed her on an animal and they left! The end of the story is when she gets home and he cuts her into pieces and states that they men that raped her (they didn’t know that part either) did it, and lets go to war!

When I hear this story I bet her adultery wasn’t the only reason she left! I mean look at his attitude! You can’t rape me but here is my wife – have her instead! LOL you think that attitude just started that night? I mean here is a man they felt was respected, and he didn’t cheat or leave – she did! LOL and the reasons she did that are not important because SHE is the one that started it! Ugh. LOL! It is stories like that when I question whether people are not looking into the “spirit” of what is said. It goes against what I read. It goes against what I feel Jesus is telling us! Okay her cheating wasn’t right, but for goodness sakes LOOK at the man’s attitude! Don’t tell he it is a “period” of time thinking here either! People may not go to that extreme now days because of jail time (in most situations okay), but over the overall mindset still lives ON! Both genders do this also!

LOL people say you can only leave under two (maybe) circumstances – that is all that applies! Jesus would tell people to get the heck out of dodge under such abuse of mindset, but NOT if married? I’m sorry that really doesn’t sit right with me! LOL! Okay…correct me – where am I going wrong! It really doesn’t make sense! Don’t be legalistic with WELL she did cheat or his actions don’t apply now days. Because they DO! Don’t go with “she should have known who she married” either. I think that is getting away from what I’m asking! There are lots of situations that happen within the mindset of what was spoken in this story! I’m talking MINDSET over all here! Don’t say she didn’t pray hard enough – or have enough faith! LOL you think people of faith in Germany during World War II were not doing just that? History tells us things happen! There are others also – that one just came to mind because most know the story and the ENDING! LOL! We all know they happen!

Are you only allowed certain promises to be broken? Even in extreme cases? Just because you marry you must take on all uglies – don’t worry about the “spirit” of what has been said elsewhere in the bible? That makes no sense to me. God isn’t that black and white in those cases – I think Humans are!

I believe I completely understand what you are saying. You are not alone in your thinking.

Much in Christendom is touted about the "LAW" but that leaves little room (oh-so apparently) for the Spirit. The true nature of marriage between a man and a woman is COVENANT, not contract. There is ONLY one being capable of maintaining a covenant alone: GOD.

Human covenant can only be established and entered into by more than one, yet it takes only one to break it. It's the breaking of that covenant that disolves a marriage. Covenant is about MUCH more than 'just' being physically faithful to your partner.

A marriage can be "adulterated" by FAR MORE things than sexual unfaithfulness. Adulteration of a marriage takes place by ANYTHING that consistently and constantly breaks the covenant. At one point in His relationship with the nation of Israel, God called them a nation of "adulterers." He was speaking about the numerous ways in which they continuously broke their covenant relationship with Him. They did NOT have a sexual relationship with God, and yet He judged their adultery. To commit adultery is to "adulterate" the covenant nature of a relationship. Human beings, especially Christians (so it would seem), love the idea of "formulas." The belief we seem to have that a 'formula' can be found to "fix" any and all ills within a relationship is simplistic, and unrealistic, given our very human nature. We still haven't grown up (imo) enough to stop seeing every relationship as the proverbial Cinderella-Happily-Everafter story. As you say, there ARE things that can happen in a marriage that, no matter what formula(s) is/are tried, no matter how many years are spent trying, no matter how much prayer, no matterhow much one may plea or placate, no matter how hard one may work ,no matter how many, or few people are involved in "helping," simply CANNOT be fixed. Too much broken-heartedness, too much contempt, too much disrespect, too much dishonor, too much pain - Too much has transpired in the breaking of the covenant.

Can God restore? Can God repair? Can God "fix" it? Of course! He's the Great Redeemer! BUT, it will still take BOTH people to agree and diligently do ALL the neccessary work it will take to CHANGE. This very, very RARELY happens. Many Christians are convinced they understand - and will JUDGE accordingly - what God has in mind, and plan, for someone else's marriage relationship. ONLY God knows. If He does plan to restore and redeem, you can be SURE it will be fraught with trial and tribulation for the two people involved. They BOTH will have to choose this path back to a RENEWED covenant, and for many, many very human beings, it simply isn't within them to do so. They do not lack "faith" as many would judge, they lack spirit. Their's has been so damaged that recovery for them isn't possible within the scope of that relationship.

Thank the Lord that His GRACE is sufficient!!! . . . because very often, dare I say MOST often, He is the ONLY one those people will receive grace from. Divorce is NOT a - *gasp* - sin. God hates divorce because it is the breaking of a covenant, and the ensuing devastation that means to the spirits of \those involved.

I do agree with what you are saying!

At times I think people want the marriage to stick together no matter what the circumstances. If you lost both the spirits within the marriage - doesn't matter - you kept the agreement. At times I wonder what is more important - one or both the souls to possibly be lost forever - one or both the souls being able to serve better without the marriage.

In reading some people's opinion the marriage is more important than the people it consists of! Totally blows me away! That makes no sense to me at all. If you lost the people because they were forced to stay together because of teachings others felt were right for is that honoring ANYONE? Where is the honor in that?

Again I'm talking extreme cases.


. . . I agree. I too, do not believe that God is "honored" like that. I am not God, but I have asked myself over and over, is God "more pleased" by a marriage of 2 "Christians" who have little between them but contempt and bitterness, simply becasuse they "keep the law," or a "pagan" couple who are wholy and deeply committed to one another in an ALIVE loving relationship?

I have viewed both kinds of relationships over long periods of time, and I simply do not believe that keeping the law is enough to warrant pleasing God, nor does it bring Him any special kind of "honor." I've seen too many Christian marriages that failed miserably at bringing honor to anyone, much less God, and yet they bound themselves to existing in this way because of the "law."

I've known other marriages that were far more honoring, and yet, because they were marriages of something other than Christian, or they were unequally yoked, those couples/marriages were "judged" accordingly. It is my belief that God sees this kind of judgement , just as he saw the Pharisees. Woe to them . . .


Lots of different opinions have any?

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