Mutuality or Bait and Switch?

The problem has been compounded by the fact that some complementarians seem to shy away from using the term mutuality. Perhaps they would rather avoid the word than attempt to extricate it from egalitarian connotations. That’s too bad, because both the egalitarian effort to redefine the word, and the complementarian hesitation to wholly embrace it, obscure a profound biblical truth: Complementarity fosters mutuality at a far deeper level than sameness does.

– Mary Kassian

Mary Kassian started a series called, Complementarity & Mutuality.


The comments were particularly interesting reading.  She was called out on the terms that they tend to use regularly to define the differences between complementarian and egalitarian beliefs.  The strange part to me?  She tends to redefine ‘belief’ systems with her own terminology.

The points that were made is that you can’t find these terms like ‘sameness’ or ‘role-interchangeability’ outside the complementarian realm.  These terms are not used within the Egalitarian circles, and makes it is confusing as to why they need to use them at all.

Mary Kassian basically said she couldn’t come up with better terminology, and how semantics are confusing.  (shrugs) I guess that means they made up something, because they can’t figure out how better to describe it.  It certainly takes much away from what some think she is trying to say.

I think most would find that explanation rather disingenuous.  

I mean all you have to truly do is google the term Christian Egalitarian, and come up with a better definition that uses plain English without extras. 

Let try that:

Christian egalitarianism holds that all people are equal before God and in Christ; have equal responsibility to use their gifts and obey their calling to the glory of God; and are called to roles and ministries without regard to class, gender, or race.

Makes a bit more sense than ‘sameness’ or ‘role-interchangeability’ doesn’t it?  Most would be able to understand the term ‘mutuality’ within the above definition as well – without her make up words.

Readers seem confused between complementarian versus hierarchy

If you look a bit closer?  Most of the questions to her were about hierarchy, and how that plays into life.  Mary Kassian is forever stating that complementarian belief systems is not the same as hierarchy as some are describing it.

So why are they are always making these debates about complementarian compared to egalitarian?   That doesn’t seem to be the debate at all.   At least to her readers that have questions!

People are confused about what complementarian stand truly IS!  How it is different from ‘traditionalism’ or ‘hierarchicalism’ as she quoted it.

If you notice the comments, questions, and explanations given most of the time on their information has more to do with what Mary Kassian terms as: ‘hierarchicalism wrapped in legalism’.  Last time I checked?  That has nothing to do with egalitarian beliefs.

Instead of getting defensive … stand up against these teachings that harm so many, and do so with more than a sentence or two stating that isn’t what you MEAN or how your beliefs work!

What it shows is that they have a HUGE hindrance in regards to their definition of what they believe.  Her articles on strawman’s or complementarian’s for dummies don’t seem to be doing her position any justice.  It seems she is to vague as to what it is – as opposed to what it isn’t.

Why do they keep presenting things as ‘complementarian versus egalitarian’ then?  I would guess that is something she would rather discuss, but it should tell them something when they can’t get past the ‘hierarchical’ portion of the discussion.   There seems to be a lot of confusion as to what the difference is.

Maybe they can could make up some more words to make it more clear?!    I wouldn’t recommend it, because their made up terminology thus far isn’t doing them any favors.

Jack Schaap's domino effect, and a note of support for survivors

Last night at Jack Schaap’s former church they had a special church service to inform their members about what is going on.  No doubt some are downright heartbroken, and other’s quite shell shocked.  I doubt Jack Schaap stopped long enough to realize the domino effect this would have on people.

Let’s start with one aspect of the fighting that has already started. 
Move on to Prayers for all involved.
Questions and Issues with David Gibb’s Request to Victims
End with some encouragement and resources.

The fighting has already started!

The fighting over the age of the girl has already started.  The age of this young adult should only matter to the justice system, and should not have any bearing to those lifes Jack Schaap’s touched.   I’m sure some will use the excuse of her legal age presently to downplay the fact even at age 18?  You are still messing with a child.  They would still call her a child after all if this had not happened.  Its no different now.

Some news stories thus far have stated that this act of adultery and/or sexual abuse started when she was 16 or 17 years of age.  The FBI has stepped into it due to the fact he may have crossed state lines with her.  Some IBF boards are stating that Jack Schaap’s secretary drove her there.   It seems that doesn’t make a hill of beans difference at this point.  They fired the secretary as well.  We may never really know what happened completely.

Personally, from my viewpoint?  The real sicko’s are the ones that have already started to blame the girl in question.  When you are that young you don’t know much about the world yet, and especially within the faith bubble.  You have not figured out how to handle the contradicting messages of how men are the authorities, and how you can escape with a ‘no’ while keeping face within your faith community.  Its hard for adults after all even in less serious circumstances! 

Most young adults – experienced in the world or not – have a hard time grappling with circumstances such as these.    Its sad that some would rather live in denial of this known fact when they were dealing with this type of sin, and they feel its time to circle the wagons against the world.  It shows the foundation is not very solid.  Adults are to guide young people for a reason, and when they ignore those reasons when it gets too tough?  When its easier to blame the youth?  Its sad that they choose childish ways, and not be the mature adults they say they are.

In a way…  Their maturity level isn’t much different from the child’s is it?  Their age is the only difference when it comes to being able to throw that blame somewhere else so they don’t have to deal with it.  Its called blame shifting.  I think they are just scared, and obviously unfit.

I’m sure Jack Schaap’s wife and family are reeling about now.  This ton of bricks just came down on their world, and I’m sure they felt they were immune from it.  They had Jack preaching against this type of evil, and placed himself in the position of the ‘go to man’ if you have any questions, issues, or struggle with it.  His wife already had plenty of hurt from the past when her own father had his own scandal, and how she has another one up closer and more personal. 

Personal feelings aside for Jack Schaap?  I have prayed for all of them.  I will admit at first it was only his family, and his church family.  God kept nudging me all day yesterday, and I finally just agreed with him!  (giggles) Funny how that happens?!  I finally prayed for everyone as I know God would wish me too.

Huge Concern about David Gibbs Request

I have a huge concern over the meeting last night at their church.  David Gibbs is the lawyer the church asked to come and speak.  He basically is asking if other victims are present he wants them to come to him at this time.  Some have mentioned they are getting phone calls from the church reminding them of this request.  He is the church’s lawyer and not their counselor.  Red Flags started to fly when I read his quotes from the newspapers.

The police are the first ones that need to be notified, and not David Gibbs.  His first loyalty due to his profession would be to his client – the church.  He was brought there to protect the church.  He isn’t there to protect the victims.  That is not his first priority.  I have a link at the end of the post that explains more of why he isn’t a good ‘go to’ person, and its from the viewpoint of a legal eagle not associated with this scandal.

Mr. Gibbs is the same lawyer that stood by Chuck Phelps during the Tina Anderson trial.  He was there to protect the church then as well.  He wasn’t there to protect Ernie Willis or Tina Anderson.  He wanted to be there in case of trouble for Pastor Phelps, or for Trinity Baptist.

No doubt the church has some legal concerns.  That is why he is there.  I would not recommend victims go to him, because he is legally obligated to be representing his client first and foremost.  That is how the profession works.

The Defense Attorney, (Gibbs) will want to conduct his own investigation.  Gibbs, or an individual called a defense investigator.  A defense investigator works for the defense attorney on the behalf of the accused.
My prosecutor friend warned, “The defense, like the police, may electronically record conversations without the victims knowledge or consent. Defense attorney’s or defense investigators, like police investigators, may legally use deception to obtain information. A victim of a sexual offense who wants no contact with a defense investigator may simply notify the defense investigator orally or in writing. If you are a victim of a sexual  offense, after this notification the defense attorney or the defense investigator may not attempt further contact with [the victim]  unless the victim initiates the contact. – Quote from Chuckles Travels

If victims don’t wish to speak to the police?  They need to find other sources of help OUTSIDE their church family to help them with this.  The church family is shell shocked, and may not be the best place to help.  Its not a cut down – it is what it is.  We are all human.