Dobson's Advice that could get a women killed!

I was reading on the web one night and found an response to an abused women from Focus on the Family. Basically the article told her that she should sit down and have firm 'talking to' with her husband about the fact if he hurts her again she will be forced to separate. As I had mentioned in the past, and I'm sure you might have heard before I don't like Dobson's response to this issue at all. Jocelyn Andersen the author of Woman Submit! also pointed out how his advice could get people killed, and also in his book "Tough Love" he spends way to much time on how women might be provoking the man.

Begin Quote: My colleague, Dr. James Dobson, addresses the issue of domestic abuse in his book Love Must Be Tough. He believes the best approach is to force a crisis that confronts the problem head-on. Only then can it be treated and resolved. When you and your husband are both in a good mood, let him know that you have something important to discuss. Tell him that you love him very much, but that you are not going to allow him to abuse you any more. Tell him that you want him to get counseling for his anger problem immediately, and that unless he agrees, you are going to need to separate from him for a while. Given his past behavior, it's likely that he will beg for your forgiveness and promise that he will never harm you again. As much as you may be tempted to believe him, don't. Set a deadline for him to start counseling and stick to your guns. You also need to have a safety plan in place in the event that your husband responds negatively to this news. End Quote

Was the ministries advice. NOW with a truly dangerous person - one that has proven that to you in the past - do you seriously think this would be a safe response? I know we wouldn't, and this shows the ignorance people face within the church when it comes to this issue. This is the attitude - among other things - that Jocelyn Andersen, myself and others are trying to relate to ministries. If you don't understand the dynamics of relationships of this sort then STOP handing out advice! This advice was dangerous, and clearly shows ignorance of subject. To me is downright irresponsible, and this is coming from a major ministry! I mean WOW think of the impact!

Jocelyn Andersen got a response from Focus on the Family ministries!

Response from Dr. Bill from Focus on the Family was an article she wrote about it. If you go back to the link in question they did change their response, but I don't like the fact they STILL recommend his book (Tough Love). To me it kind of makes the point mute, since the book basically says the same thing. Progress? Possible I guess. When are they going to change that section in his book to show his new found 'wisdom' especially when they are still recommending it.

Here is their revision link.

Let the wife see that she respects her husband!

I have been reading the book "Living it and Lovin it" by the http://www.joelandkathy.com/

I had to truly giggle with delight as I read their chapter on RESPECT! It was refreshing to hear!

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

You notice the blue text? I highlighted that because I wanted to draw to a point here! They mentioned this in their book, and I really feel they made a good point! They mentioned that the above passage we hear has 183 words, and the last 10 are addressed to wife's. You ever notice how many books, articles, sermons, threads on boards, etc are address those 10 words? You notice the difference compared to the first 173 words? What is my point, and what am I getting at? Well guess what might be coming next (internal giggle)!

FOUR TIMES the husbands are told to love their wives with agape love! They are told to lie down their lives for her, and LOVE their wives as they love themselves!

We all know there are women out there that have Godly husband's like this, and we also know that you will have wife's that won't respect their husbands.....no matter HOW well he lives by this passage! We aren't going to address that today.

The emphasis SEEMS to be on the husband's in this passage, and there is a last remark for the wife's. What the author's find asounding (as with myself) is the billing those last 10 words get compared to the rest of the 173! I have been told in the past it was due to the fact that its mostly women that buy the books, articles, etc on relationships. There is no true audience like this for men's relationship books towards marriage. I'm sure we could find some, but shall we compare the numbers? Just go look at your local bookstore, or even check the internet! Where are all the books, articles, videos, threads on boards, etc SPEAKING as strongly about this aspect? I mean you read all the time that people just NEED to get right with the LORD, and maybe the divorce rates will go down! If women are reading all those books, articles, etc on relationships TRYING to do those 10 last words.........we should have 100 times more available for the men! They have a HUGE job here according to this passage! Apage love wouldn't place the emphasis on 'respect', because in the majority of the cases they would recieve it! I mean respect is given when? According to the church respect is to be given EVEN when undeserved! Do you see the same pressure about this apage LOVE that is to be there no matter what? What is strange is that SEEMS to be the defination! RIGHT?!

They had a nice comparsion in this chapter on respect! They said what if you employer asked you to go and sweep the walk 4 TIMES in a 183 words dialog always STRESSING this sweeping...then ended the thought with, "and could you also take out the trash!" Which may be more important to you at first? WHICH seems to be the priority? How do you think your employer would react if you just took out the trash? I mean he did SAY that also right?! Do you think he would feel you were listening to the true message? Do you think he would be happy with that result?

The church seems to be TAKING OUT THE TRASH a little to much, and what happened to the sweeping of the sidewalk? Do a search for the sweeping of the sidewalk, and you will find alot of articles STILL within that content talking a little to much about TRASH!

With Ephesians 5:25-33 it amazes me with the messages we get MOST of the time!

1. BOOKS coming out on the importance to both jobs equally SWEEPING the walk and taking out that trash!


2. ARTICLES on that TRASH really needing alot of attention...oh and by the way sweep the walk will ya!


3. AND my personal favorite the doctrinal dissertation on the NEED to take that trash out, and we don't need to talk about the sidewalk!

You have SEEN the amounts of material written on the RESPECTING of the husband! Where are the mountains of literature the other direction? LOL I guess I missed it! I guess some would say that men don't need that study or something. The world has spent so much time on the other end you seem to wonder WHY the divorce rate is so high if that was so perfect! LOL I mean MOST men are going around loving their spouses with ALL this apage love, and we are all in such AWE as to WHY these wifes just can't respect that right? I mean this blog is dedicated those spouses that DON'T do this! Where is the help for these poor lost souls? I mean you have men that belittle, ignore, curse at, and cheat on their spouses...and what are their spouses asked to do? RESPECT them more of all things! NO wonder these men can't get it right, no one is telling them that apage love is NOT dependent on respect! Things are written all the time on HOW men need this respect, and they will LOVE you in return! That isn't what the bible says to do! He is to LOVE her always - not dependent on the respect - and that is what the passage is addressing!

The wife then feels that pressure to offer her husband underserved respect. Most Christian wives cannot disregard their perceived duty in the same manner that their husbands disregard the responsibility to love them with agape love. These wives feel a deep burden to be obedient to God. They often struggle to respect their husbands regardless of their commitment to love. Can the husband's LEARN apage love the other way around? I'm sure they can! Is that what Paul had in mind with this above passage? Respect comes naturally to women that feel this LOVE from their spouse! Since most of the responsibility is placed on the husband WHY is it we stress so much in the other direction? Aren't we doing things a bit backwards?

Joel speaks of this in the book:

I live with Kathy according to the knowledge that I have learned from listening to her heart. I meet her needs because I have allowed her to be direct with me about those that she has. This is what it means to lay my life down for my wife. I listen for her heart. When she expresses a need, she gets my full attention. I focus on her so that she feels the esteem of the premium value which I bestow upon her. I respect Kathy. I honor Kathy. Does she respect me in return? Of course! Why wouldn’t she? Is my greatest need as a man to be respected by Kathy? No!

My greatest need as a man is to become the man that God has called me to be by becoming the husband that my wife needs me to be! My greatest need as a man is to walk in maturity and Christlikeness.

Respect from Kathy is a by-product of my actions and attitudes of love.

WOW! What a great part of the BOOK! He has it! One thing he said in the chapter that truly went against the grain of what you read most of the time IS...

On the other hand, if the stress manifests itself in a bad attitude or action toward her or the children, she tells me about it. I respect her enough to receive the correction. Do I feel “respected” in that moment when she says, “Joel, you are over-reacting about such and so.” No. I am not supposed to feel respected. I am not acting respectably.

Most of the time that is the OPPOSITE of what women are asked to DO! If their man comes off defensive like some they are told - watch your tone, don't be a nag! RESPECT your husband! Why is that? Where is the APAGE love in that response of being defensive to correction that is needed? Why are we asking people in TROUBLE to walk on eggshells? What is SO hard about this concept? Could it be that men have a hard time dealing with pride and ego? I'm sure it is! I mean that is how they are wired most of the time, and lets face it....how society tends to push them to be! We are asked to DIE to ourselves within scripture, and with that process pride and egos would DIE along with it!

Kathy mentioned:

There was a time when I could not offer real respect although I desperately tried to manufacture it. Joel didn’t live in a way that deserved respect! I would try because that was what I was told to do. How could I honor a man who treated me so poorly? When we would get into an argument, Joel would convince me that it was entirely my fault. Sometimes after these fights I would beat myself up emotionally because I had lost my cool and ended up yelling or throwing something at him.

You read all the time of this type of senerio, and I guess I truly never understood it. You have someone being treated poorly, and pouring her heart out to others and she is told basically DEAL WITH IT! You must respect your husband in all, and its NOT dependent on his doing his job! Roll with the punches, and don't take things so personally! Take your burden to God, and as scripture say he will take your burden, and the yoke will be light! In other words, at least to ME - you do your job and lets NOT worry about him doing his okay? The one that was told with 173 words how important it is for him to treat his spouse in such a way doesn't need correction! YOUR attitude does! You aren't respecting him enough if you feel HURT by his behavior! I always wondered if they were telling us you are being to sensitive, and to get a thicker skin! That goes against want scripture states!

I believed that I was called to respect Joel and submit to him in anything except for sin. In retrospect, the concept that I had to put up with mistreatment and yet still offer respect was just flat out wrong. God never wanted me to be treated the way that I was treated. God never
expected me to respect Joel no matter what. Marriage is not “carte blanche” for a man’s selfishness. I was God’s daughter! I was God’s creation! I deserved to be treated in the right way!

Certainly, no one was telling me that. The best that I ever got was, “Just submit to him, love him and respect him. God will bring him around.” That advice cost me years of heartache.

As we know these comments have caused alot of people heartache! GET RIGHT WITH GOD they tell you, and yet to me at times they haven't got the first clue yet themselves!

This couple started after Joel himself had mistreated his wife for years within the marriage. She was told to submit and respect! Joel himself reminded her of his headship! He had an affair, and instead of having any closure he announced that he repented and was forgiven....and to DROP IT! Certain questions, attitudes and hurts show that SHE wasn't doing things right! Paul Hegstrom got ahold of him, and took the scales off his eyes! Joel wasn't a wife beater as Paul Hegstrom was! He did recoginize the beatings of other forms he was giving his wife, and that was far from what God expected of him as a Godly husband!

People of troubled marriages would benefit from their ministry. Couples that aren't would as well, but it does tend to wake up selfish men that tend to break not only themselves...but their family along with it! Joel basically states that he was emotionally maybe 5-8 years old! His reactions were those a child, and his actions were also! He was to busy stating if she would JUST do her job everything would be FINE! What he didn't grasp was if he did his job, and GREW UP God would bestow him with the marriage he never dreamed of! He gets the proper respect from his wife now, and he doesn't do it because SHE is doing her job! He is doing his job that God has asked him to, and the byproduct of that is a wife that couldn't love him MORE! THat he enjoys her honoring and respecting him! That is TRULY a helpmate! He learned to die to himself, and showed this love to his wife. Genesis says that women have desire to serve the husband. HUSBANDS will RULE over them! The way I read it is what is happening today, and that RULING wasn't meant as some command or gift from him! It was due to the fall, and humans would have to WORK to get it right with HIM!

Gen 3:15 And there will be war between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed: by him will your head be crushed and by you his foot will be wounded.
Gen 3:16 To the woman he said, Great will be your pain in childbirth; in sorrow will your children come to birth; still your desire will be for your husband, but he will be your master.

The bible speaks many times of what a good leader is. Demanding respect, submission, commanding headship be recognized is NOT within scripture as leadership qualities. At times you see this pushed a little to much, and when you have ego and pride sprinkled on top to have hurt and heartache! In Peter the scripture states that if you do not treat your wife as the coheir in grace that your prayers will be hindered! The scripture above pushes the agape love that God asks you to show your wife.

Joel and Kathy's ministry will help those that are serious about their walk to be Godly spouses! The men will be told to DIE upon themselves, and allow pride and ego to go with it! They will be told to GROW UP, and be the Man God asks you to be! STOP the manipulation and guilt trips, and allow your wife to be safe opening her heart to you without attacks, belittling and mininizing of her thoughts. We are all to be servants, and they can show you HOW to be a better servant of God! How to find that marriage you both wish to have, and how to get there! It won't be easy, and wifes will have to learn to open their hearts once again! BOTH are going to have jobs to do, but the dynamics of it are very different!

They have had plenty of broken marriages restored, and NOT in way that asks the family to walk on eggshells, shut down feelings, and avoid things that shouldn't be avoided. LOVE and being a true servant instead of concentrating on those 10 ten words! Joel says once he learned to do this he has the marriage he always wanted, and she honors, respects and loves him in return!

Men should be dealing with relationship books, articles, etc MORE than they are! They have one heck of line to tow! When the time comes that we push that portion a bit more, and a bit less unrealistic pressure on the other end to HOLD UP the relationship we may see a HUGE difference! When they stop asking WOMEN to step up and DO the man's job as far as keeping things together at the expense of themselves (emotionally, spiritually, and physically) we might actually SEE some differences in this world! After 50 years + of this PUSH for women to submit - its time to truly show those broken men how to TRULY love....so they can be the man that God wishes them to be! THEN we will make a difference in this world!

Where the women are ruling in Kenya

This doesn't have to much to do with faith in the traditional sense, but in their culture this is HUGE!

Men are very upfront about their being allowed to beat the women, and if they get raped or are to outspoken they are kicked out of the tribe. They are on their own.

A number of the 'kicked out' women decided to join forces and get their own community together. They live with no men. The men now that all the women are gone are having to do all of the work. In the past they would lay in the shacks and nap while the women worked, and now they do it all. As you can imagine they aren't very happy! Meanwhile the women have found ways of supporting themselves, and getting funds from tourists, etc. The best the men try to do is steal from them.

Its a very interesting story. THere are no protections there, and its expected to deal with being beat and disrespected. Men's attitudes are very much THEY need to come home, and do what is right! LOL The ladies? Well?? LOL Lets say their demands aren't giving them much incentive!

I'm not sure this could happen on this scale anywhere else on this earth!

Where Women Rule - Kenya

There is no way to embed in post, but please feel free to click link and enjoy!

A Cry for Help - Tracy Thurman Story

Tracy Thurman's Story of domestic violence and abuse at the hands of her husband. The fact that law enforcement basically ignored her pleads until he almost killed her. She ended up suing, and won her case! One of the many stories that changed the lifes of domestic abuse victims, and those that are dealing martial abuse in their lifes.

I remember seeing this film a while ago. What is chilling is how short a time ago the world took domestic violence within families seriously. Ahem. I guess I could say was FORCED to take it seriously.

This happened in the 1980's, and that wasn't so long ago. We have come far from that time, but look at the toll. SURE Tracy Thurman in this film may have NOT been a faith follower, but to be perfectly honest I don't think it would have mattered. I have often wondered how long it will be until the church is placed in this situation before they take the issue a bit more seriously. Everyone knows its wrong, but how they deal with it....is wrong as well. I would bet in the future if the church goes thru what this town did (after they got sued) things might be different for those that come to them for help. Everyone - unless they are completely blind - knows that this issue is serious. Emotional and verbal abuse is not taken as seriously, and yet it is shown that it could be taken into this realm very quickly. Sick people with a need for control - you just never know how far they will take it. If the church can't wake in the real sense in what they feel is the 'real' abuse victims what will do they for the rest of us?

Here is Part one, and you can follow the links for the rest of the movie!



A Cry for Help Part Two

A Cry for Help Part Three

A cry for Help Part 4

A Cry for Help Part 5

A Cry for Help Part 6

A Cry for Help Part 7


A Cry For Help Part 8

A Cry for help Part 9

A Cry for Help Part 10

Why does he do that? Possible answer?!

Paul Hegstrom

God showed Paul Hegstrom how to "rewire the brain" to bring healing from past hurts. Also talks about healing of emotional scars from childhood and learning to have healthy relationships with others.

From the Show, "Its Supernatural!"

Paul Hegstrom as a successful ministry called, "Life Skills International".


This was his book that you may have heard about.! Angry Men and the Women that loved them! LINK!

Why marriages Fail .... Why do churches truly address this?

Why Marriages Fail Link

I found an interesting article recently about a study that was done about couples starting even before they married, and then followed up with them a number of times within the years of the relationship.

If first spoke about Escalation, and how disagreements are handled.

You may be thinking, "we don't fight like cats and dogs." And while that may be true, your marriage may still have this risk factor. Damaging escalation is not always dramatic. Voices do not have to be raised for couples to get into a cycle of returning negative for negative. Conflict over paying the rent, taking out the garbage, running errands that result in muttering to oneself, rolling your eyes, or throwing up your hands can also be examples of escalation.

Couples who escalate arguments must control their emotions and control their tongues. James writes, "If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless" (James 1:26). Couples who want a strong marriage must learn to counteract the tendency to escalate as a couple. The key to a strong and stable marriage is learning to control your emotions and learning how to keep a rein on your tongue.

I think alot of people downplay the power of the tongue, and also the mention of the body languange that the author speaks of. Its often returned with, 'what did you do to make that this happen?" Scripture doesn't push this idea, but humans often do. We tend to focus to much on this, and not enough on how neither party should be doing this.....and if they do it needs to be addressed. The returned statement of, "We only have heard one side" is another excuse NOT to deal!

Its so strange to me when you see a wife or husband coming to the church with concerns about escalation, and them standing back in shock and not truly knowing WHAT to do....and the responses they get! Maybe they didn't feel honored or loved enough because something you did in the past! Maybe it was the WAY you said it! Did you request this in the right tone? Its as if people can't grasp that people can just DO THIS without motive and intent! There must have been SOMETHING you did to push the buttons!

On the one hand you have them dealing with someone that can't fight fair (for lack of a better word), and you have the church questioning what you may have DONE to allow this to happen!

Invalidation is another factor.

Jesus taught that attacks on the character of another person are sinful and harmful. "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell" (Matt. 5:22). Calling a person worthless or empty-headed (which is what the Aramaic term raca means) is not what a Christian should do.

Invalidation can also be much more subtle. It may involve an argument where contempt for the other partner is not so obvious. One partner may merely be putting the other partner down for his or her feelings. The message conveyed is that your feelings do not matter. A husband may put his wife down because she is more emotional or because she is more easily hurt by comments. A husband may invalidate a wife's fears about the children's safety. A wife may invalidate a husband's desire to succeed in the company, saying that it really doesn't matter if he becomes district manager. Ultimately the partner receiving these comments begins to share less and less so that the intimate level of sharing evaporates. When this happens, oneness is lost.

Alot of advice that people are given when victims of this type of behavior also invalidates their feelings. GIVE IT TO THE LORD, and don't worry about them! You need to concentrate on you, because you can't change the person. All kinds of things are said to NOT face the fact that their actions, deeds and words are sinful. Mininizing people's experiences, and basically telling them to "get over it" in a nutshell.

They are invalidated from both arenas - from the home and the church. People refuse to grasp why that sends people reeling! If it causes a rift within the relationship, and the support system also refusing to acknowledge it...and when we know that is damaging....I mean WOW!

Negative Interpretations

Another kind of negative interpretation is mind reading. "Mind reading occurs when you assume you know what your partner is thinking or why he or she did something." Nearly everyone is guilty of mind reading at some time or other. And when you mind read positively, it does not tend to do much harm. But when you mind read on the negative side, it can spell trouble for a marriage.

Paul warned against attempting to judge the thoughts and motives of others (1 Cor. 4:5). And Jesus asked, "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" (Luke 6:41).
Negative interpretations are hard to detect and counteract. Research shows that in distressed marriages there is a tendency for partners to discount the positive things they see, attributing them to causes such as chance rather than to positive characteristics of the partner. That is why negative interpretations do not change easily

I think almost anyone can be guilty of this at one time or another, but its when do this as a habit is when you get yourself into trouble.

Most people are asked to STOP doing whatever it is that bothers their partner so much so they don't HAVE these negative thoughts - doesn't matter if it is unrealistic or even irrational! Do what you can to counteract this, and maybe dont' go out with your friends if you partner gets jeolous! Normally, abusers that have unrealistic views and also use this concept to keep the partner down. The church tells them to do without, and again never really addresses the core. Partner tells them do this as a control tactic.

Supporters can be enablers in other words. Enablers of bad behavior.

Withdrawal and Avoidance

Escalation, invalidation, and negative interpretations are three of the four negative risk factors identified by researchers at the University of Denver. The last of these has two descriptors: withdrawal and avoidance. These are two different manifestations of the problem wherein a partner is unwilling to get in or stay in a discussion that is too threatening.

"Withdrawal can be as obvious as getting up and leaving the room or as subtle as 'turning off' or 'shutting down' during an argument. The withdrawer often tends to get quiet during an argument, look away, or agree quickly to a partner's suggestion just to end the conversation, with no real intention of following through."{4}

"Avoidance reflects the same reluctance to get into certain discussions, with more emphasis on the attempt to not let the conversation happen in the first place. A person prone to avoidance would prefer that the topic not come up and, if it does, may manifest the signs of withdrawal just described."{5}

In the article the author used an example of a man that withdraws from a conflict with his wife, because basically she is unsafe to continue with.

This is true for everyone in life - whether it be a boss, coworker, friend, family member, child or spouse.

I have seen signs of this in dicussion with others, and they were basically told WHY don't you just go to them, and TELL them how you feel! WHen they do and are raged upon, and then they are then asked if they requested this in a proper manner. The deal is most people that act like this are doing it for a purpose! They want the person to HUSH, and can find ways of making this happen very well. Sadly, on the other hand tell the partner they have communications issues because they never talk to them. LOL When the partner says that the supporters say - SEE THEY ARE TRYING! don't be so demanding!

The conclusion:

Each of these four risk factors (escalation, invalidation, negative interpretations, and withdrawal and avoidance) can build barriers in a marriage leading ultimately to loneliness and isolation. The research shows that couples that want a good marriage need to eliminate these risk factors from their marriage, or else the negative factors will overwhelm the positive aspects of the marriage. It is never too late to put your marriage back on track.

I think we can all agree that would awesome! The problem is that most people don't want to address any of these factors in any real way. They pussyfoot around them with "What ifs" from the party that is hurting. The strange part I find is YES I do agree with alot of what the article states, but when hurting parties come to their church for help........the church basically does this again to them - I also see them doing the characteristics of this article. Tell them they might fight wrong, make to make conclusions, must have a communication issue, and YES please mininize the damage from their words! TAKE IT TO THE LORD, and allow him to handle things!

Now if we can find ways of addressing things that are proven in the research then maybe we can make some headway in healing marriages. That would mean people need to take their heads of the sand, and be direct like Jesus was. NOT continue to find ways of blaming the person that is asking for help. Nothing wrong with looking towards yourself, and being more Christlike okay? When you place MOST of the load on the hurting party....well that is where the trouble gets started once again.

Its a good read and I recommend you read it in its entire form! The link is at the top of the article!