He's my friend! The rinse and repeat excuse used by Celebrity Pastors.

Boy oh BOY is there a huge BREW ha ha over Mark Driscoll, and Janet Mefferd recently.

It reminds me of the gaslighting that victims get when they approach the church about the abuse in their homes.  You know what I mean…it never really happened.  It was all in your mind.  You just want to be mad, etc.  We see nothing, and you are making a big deal out of nothing.  NOTHING here to see!

He is my friend!

Mark was to be interviewed about his new book, and he was called on some publishing errors that Janet saw.  He first attempted the pollyanna response (He is my friend, and I love him, etc.) that is common with celebrity pastors, and then Janet Mefferd pushed harder.  He answered again with a hint that maybe she needs to hush with a snark about how he should have taken notes during dinnertime with the author…and footnoted it for Janet Mefferd.  She was firm, but nice and drove the point home again -  he wasn’t having it.  He did the ‘biblical’ drill, and she is just being nasty by continuing the conversation.

Mark to me is trying to be the ‘cool’ pastor on the block, and he seems to have quite a following.  He is more what I was term a Celebrity Pastor, and he seems to feel at times his opinion is best presented with the LOUD factor.

Yet, in this interview with Janet Mefferd?  I’m sorry it reminded me of the old Southern Belle approach of how he just doesn’t understand what she wants from him today….we suppose to talk about my BOOK after all.  I told you he is my friend, and I love him…and if I had small error in my footnote – I say to my friend ‘sorry’.  Driscoll is no Southern Belle, and he got called out on it – drop the platitudes and answer the question.  Mark objected and got nasty because she didn’t go with the ‘biblical’ game that celebrity pastors use when they get busted.

Today if you have a pastor that is popular in some circles, and he is complementarian?  They seem to include him in their little ‘inner’ circle.  They promote themselves in the other’s conferences, promote each other’s books, and generally parrot the old ‘he is a Godly man’ deal.  You have to admit their marketing is working.

Mark Driscoll is accused of plagiarism. His inner circle is more upset over her being ‘rude’ to him.  Oh boy!

Prior to my edits here on 12/7/13 - Janet Mefferd has taken down some of the material about this case.
Ingrid Schlueter Resigns From Janet Mefferd Show Over Mark Driscoll Plagiarism Controversy

Fallout From Radio Show Host's Allegations That Pastor Mark Driscoll Plagiarized Includes Deletion, Apology and Producer's Resignation

Although it is not clear why Mefferd removed her content regarding the accusations against Driscoll or whether she was pressured, the Christian Post learned that Tyndale House has some sort of media partnership with Salem Radio Network and Mefferd's radio show is a member of Salem National, a subsidiary of Salem Communications Corporation.

So some of the links below have been removed by the author.

Other Examples of, “He is my friend”

Problem is when one of the celebrity pastors fall?  They tend to circle the wagons, and go in for the kill towards the accuser.  I have to tell you I caught the business when I posted John Piper on Youtube when he spoke on Desiring God, “Does a woman submit to abuse.”  Now keep in mind the website stated you could copy the material to share, and that is what I did on youtube along with my opinion’s of his viewpoint on my blog.  Well that video took on a life of its own, and to this day he still refuses to admit that what he said was awful and dangerous.  I no doubt didn’t take the junk that Janet Mefferd is taking from the Mark Driscroll crowd, but I can sure empathize with her position.

They did the same thing when it came to CJ Mahaney, and the sexual abuse circus that went on within his network of churches.  They all love him, and don’t believe a word of it – since they are ‘friends’ and all that don’t you know.  Throw in a couple of  “Godly” this, and “Biblical” that and everything is all better now.  I mean when some of the cases were thrown out because of the statue of limitations (took to long to come to trial) that means the cases had no merit – according to the celebrity pastors.  Your suppose to believe that now!  Yet, that isn’t entirely true is it?!

Celebrity Pastors seem to get a couple of passes they certainly shouldn’t be getting.   I guess they seem to feel if one falls the rest will fall like a house of cards?

Anyway, here is the start of the timeline:

She is a journalist, and she did need to ask about the lack of ‘piety’ he showed at John MacArthur’s Strange Fire by crashing it to give out his ‘newest’ book.  When he was asked to leave?  He tweets that they confiscated his books, and yet they have video of him offering them UP as a gift to the church.  Creating that type of ‘buzz’ isn’t generally considered proper, or above board.  He attempts to skate past all that.  Its an inner circle deal, and your suppose to overlook it.

Mark got a pass on the Strange Fire behavior in the interview as far as I’m concerned. No doubt he was a bit embarrassed by his childish behavior, especially when he was there to speak at a ‘Act Like Men’ conference on the other part of town. (giggles) Think about that for a moment huh?

Janet Mefferd Interviews Mark Driscoll

The interview was going nicely until the alleged plagiarism came up.  As I said the pollyanna approach was attempted, and he snaps back by telling her she is being grumpy, accusatory, and not Christlike when the approach was rejected.  I realize it was uncomfortable for him, but he does preach how you are to be humble in response to error.  He blew that.

I mean how dare her hold his feet the to fire like that?  I had to roll my eyes at the “I love you as a sister in Christ’ speech as well.  Please.  Seriously?  He was to busy telling her he dines with the gentleman that his material sounds like, and how he is a good friend of his.  That doesn’t answer the questions, but I guess it should. 

Then it happened…. The end of the interview to ME at least sounded like a call drop.  You know how cell phones are.  I didn’t take it as a hangup myself.  .

Well – insert drama here – did he hang up or didn’t he?  A second audio of the interview surfaced to show that he didn’t.  The second audio to me seemed a bit fishy, because the audio quality is different.  The seconds that pass of silence was different as well.   His publishing house (Tyndale) came back with a rebuke of Mefferd after listening to a recording supplied by Mark Driscoll of the interview.  They apparently didn’t like her tone (which others didn’t either), and stated that the book correctly footnoted Mark’s source.  Janet supplied screenshots of the material in question. It certainly doesn’t look like he footnoted by the lawful standardized practice, but I’m no lawyer.

Notice!  Janet is clear as a bell as she is in the studio on the first version (video above), but on the second version of the interview ending she sounds like she is also on the cell phone.  It clearly isn’t the same recording at all.  Did Mark hit his mute button by mistake while he was also recording the interview?  Who knows, and quite frankly who cares. 

It wasn’t the big issue anyway.  Yet, you wouldn’t think so by the buzz all over the place.  I saw it as a diversion from the bigger issues.  It was all about how Mark was treated rudely, and accused of hanging up on the interview when he didn’t.  WELL at least from his ‘circle the wagons’ friends.  I still don’t really know what happened there, but something did.  If you look at the comment section of Spiritual Sounding Board you will see ‘tweets’ from the inner circle telling others not to do interviews anymore with Janet Mefferd.

Own it, Correct it, and Move ON!  Friendship doesn’t cut it!

I have had to deal with my share of media in the past due to a business officer position I held once upon a time.  We had the media hounding us over a personnel issue, and we couldn’t discuss it contractually.  The person was charismatic, and we got loads of phone calls about it.  Yet, we had to handle it some how.  We had some drama as well, and you need to stay calm, direct and to the point. In our circumstance everything was above board, and we would have LOVED to include the parts that we legally couldn’t. 

If you are asked questions again – like Driscoll was?  You rinse and repeat your response.  I guess my point here is if a everyday person can do this on occasion?  Driscoll in his position he really has no excuse.  He just doesn’t.  The Pollyanna approach isn’t what was needed here, and it sounds like the alleged actions may not be so above board.  Is that why he relied on friendship in this case?  I don’t know.

If the alleged plagiarism was indeed an error, and it was overlooked?  You shut the interview down right away by admitting it.  You rinse and repeat your response as needed.  You can do it in a way without having your pants sued off, and he knows it.  You should have heard repentance (if he felt there was a possibility of error)…and you heard defensiveness and he is my friend (which has nothing to do with it). 

You sound sincere and firm, because mistakes happen.  The last thing you do is get defensive, and give this impression on how dare you attempt to take authority over ME.  For goodness sakes you sound fishy, and up to something when you do that.  You try to act all ‘street wise’ preacher guy the rest of the time!  Legally? They should care less if the man is your friend, and you had dinner with him…and all that jazz.  It wouldn’t hold up!

Janet did a follow up, because of the backlash. 

Janet Talks about what happened with Mark Driscoll

Honestly?  If Mark Driscoll was a man of integrity he would stop the wagons that circled him, and say, “Your right!  I acted like a Jerk.  I’m sorry.”  Then you finish it up like you should.  Being called on a alleged crime – 14 pages of material after all – is pretty serious.  If it was dumb mistake why not admit it?  Is there a lack of faith in forgiveness? 

Quite frankly, admitting the error to me it would go far.  He acted like he was above all that, and no one is…not even a celebrity pastor.  Friendship doesn’t apply in their circumstances.  He did attempt to admit it, but also ended it by making excuses for himself.  That is why he got additional questions from her.  He tried to wiggle out of it. 

He has an out here he could use – blame the FLU!  We all get grumpy when we don’t feel good.  Save face and use it for goodness sakes!

Yesterday Janet Mefferd spoke for the last time for now about this issue, and also posted online screenshots of the material in question.  She also added to the list where he alleged plagiarized in another book.  The publishing houses will not return her calls or emails.  You can listen to how she has been treated since this time, and how she has uncovered the possible reasons WHY the publishing houses are refusing to talk to her.  Big surprise…Money!

I know my readers have felt ‘gaslighted’ when they have approached their churches about the abuse that is going on in their homes.  If anything this circumstance should validate your life experiences in a way.  Mark was trying to pussy foot around this interview, and she was strong enough to not let him.  Most in you in your circumstance – at the time anyway – were NOT strong enough to do what Janet did.  Your too beaten down by life, and sadly that is what they count on.  Well in my opinion anyway.  The bigger issue?  We shouldn’t have play those games. 

Does ‘He is my friend’ work?

Will this circumstance blow over?  In my experience due to their status – it will.  I hope Janet Mefferd doesn’t let go of this, and she shouldn’t. When you look close enough it all comes down to cash.  The cash they make from these celebrity pastors, and how they are investing in publishing the cash cows in the future. The alleged source material he plagiarized?  He took it from the inner circle, and they won’t push it legally.  That’s the reality of it.  Remember they cover for each other, and this practice may magically stop or disappear in future printing of the books in question.  They will not go as far as admitting any wrong doing.  The publishing houses will cover their behinds as well.

No.  Its not us – its them.  It’s the lofty and haughty attitudes that know so much better without even giving the consideration of a true listening ear.  The muscle of the machine will make the circumstances disappear, and the diversions will belittle the reality of it.  They are ‘friends’ after all.

They seem truly afraid to be held accountable, and sadly tend to stick together like some high school clic.  Sigh.

Other points of view:

Janet Mefferd  She speaks again about this after the Scott Walker interview – about the 19 minute mark.
Mark Driscoll and Janet Mefferd: Plagiarism, Tribalism and Paganism
Plagiarism? Examine for Yourself
If the Top Men take over, who will ask the hard questions?
Janet Mefferd presents documentation of Mark Driscoll's work to work by Peter Jones and Don Carson

Act Like "Gentle" Men PLEASE!

Matthew 7:¹⁵ “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. ¹⁶ By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? ¹⁷ Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. ¹⁸ A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.¹⁹ Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ²⁰ Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Join the Church and Get a Set of Knifes

Well it seems we had two popular ‘conferences’ to choose from in California this week. 

 

Pastor John MacArthur has his Strange Fire Conference.

 

Strange Fire is a conference that will set forth what the Bible really says about the Holy Spirit, and how that squares with the charismatic movement. We’re going to address in a biblical, straightforward manner what many today see as a peripheral issue. On the contrary, your view of the Holy Spirit influences your relationship with God, your personal holiness, and your commitment to the church and evangelism.

 

Then you have the Mark Driscoll and James MacDonald running their “Act Like Men” Conference.

 

Men who are loud and ruthless about their own sin, but patient and full of grace in leading others. Men who long to follow God without limits and meet the needs of those around them without hesitation.

To get there we need radical surgery. It's time to cut deep and get it all, and not be afraid of what that means. We challenge you to join thousands of men for a two-day conference this fall-to step up with us and Act Like Men.

 

What happened to acting like GENTLE men?

 

We have seen in the past when one pastor’s don’t like something another pastor believes, preaches, teaches, etc.  They can be either a gentleman about it, or sadly as we have what we have  seen this week – a petulant child.  Mark Driscoll gets the petulant child award this week!

 

No doubt neither of them agreed with the ‘others’ message this week, but holy mackerel you would think some could ‘act’ the role they get paid for.  You know – pastor, teacher, leader, etc?!

 

Mark Driscoll’s behavior to me doesn’t show other’s how to ‘Act Like Men’.  He tweets ahead of time that he planned to go to John MacArthur’s event to ‘hand out his newest book’ which doesn’t agree with the MacArthur’s main message for his conference.

 

Yes, we know that celebrities at times ‘tweet’ that they will be places where others can meet them.  Pastor’s tweeting that they plan to come to the opposing event to hand out his books ‘opposing’ message?  That’s not my vision of someone that wants others to ‘Act Like Men’.  Establishments normally welcome celebrities and ‘twitter’ followers because it helps their bottom line, and gives them promotion.

 

Some how I don’t think The Strange Fire Conference took it that way.  It doesn’t take ‘discernment’ to figure out WHY either!

 

As most of us know – or could understand if you didn’t – vendors are normally vetted at these events.  The approved vendors then can hand out their literature, and sell their wears, etc.  This is pretty common practice for a host of reasons.

 

I guess Mark Driscoll and James MacDonald decided to ‘Act Like Men’ and crash the event to hand out Mark’s latest book  - and of course ‘autograph’ them if need be.  They were approached, and asked to stop.  Security it seems offered to walk him and his books back to his car.  Yes, the vendor ‘vetting’ portion that no doubt Driscoll and MacDonald knew  about – as I’m sure they have the same process – was explained to them.

 

To me, I can understand you being offended by the MacArthur’s conferences message.  People do that have right, and you can ‘agree’ with MacArthur’s view as well.  Different belief systems aren’t going away anytime SOON!  For me personally? I think they are both a bit screwy!

 

Crashing an event like this is not what a gentleman would do.  You don’t ‘tweet’ your maybe arrival if you have time, and act like WILL wonders ever cease  - when asked to leave due to actions you KNEW would push buttons. 

 

(giggles) I mean can you imagine what the response would be if a feminist group or gay pride group showed up at the ‘Act Like Men’ conference?  Yikers! 

 

James MacDonald didn’t like how some people showed up at his event – and they paid for the tickets and travel – only to be escorted out, and threatened with arrest.   Yet, Mature and Acting Like Men MacDonald and Driscoll didn’t see a problem crashing someone else’s event while NOT paying for the tickets and travel.  Okay then.  They can pick and choose who is at their event, and BE MEN while crashing someone else’s.  Sigh.

 

Yes, Driscoll acted as if he showed up to ‘bless them’ with his new book.  (Yeah right!) They were his GIFT to them, and he showed up with boxes FULL of them.  When he was finally escorted to his car?  Mark Driscoll to let everyone know that the books were a ‘gift’ to the church location where the event was taking place.

 

Next thing you know he wanted to show others how to ‘Act Like Men’ once again, and tweets that security at the event confiscated his books.  I guess he missed the part that plenty of others were around when he announced ‘his gift’, and they were rather upset when they were accused of ‘confiscation’ instead.  Check out the screen shot of responses on Twitter over that:  Driscoll Claims Confiscation of his Books

 

Yep, they know how to Act Like Men don’t they? NOT!

 

That Strange Fire he felt was NOT the symbol of Real Men.  Teenage boys going out to crash a party MAYBE …. but then most of those boys GROW UP! 

 

Comment I had to smile at: Sort of funny, really to watch this…. They both agree that the earth is flat, but can’t agree on whether it rests on the backs of seven elephants, or an endless stack of turtles. Utterly delusional. Both.

 

Mark Driscoll 'Crashes' John MacArthur's Strange Fire Conference? (PHOTOS)

 

Mike Riccardi, the local outreach pastor at Grace Community Church Speaks of what he saw

Christianity and domestic violence

In Recognition of Domestic Violence Awareness Month:  Articles of Domestic Violence in the Church and the World

 

As we all know abuse is not a gender issue, but a human one.

 

Family + False Religion = Violence

The very agent that was designed to bring healing and comfort--the church--must then reexamine its teachings, traditions, and practices that support the baser passions and drives for greed of power and control. The church can be and should be the most reliable agent for healing and restoration. The church must be a loud voice against family violence. – Sounds of Encouragement

 

 

Domestic Violence Documentary

Sin By Silence

is a documentary of women in prison in California.   

Sin by Silence is a domestic violence documentary film by Olivia Klaus that offers a unique gateway into the lives of women who are the tragedies living worst-case scenarios and survivors - women who have killed their abusive husbands. Based on the first inmate-initiated and led support group in the entire United States prison system, the film reveals the history and stories of the members of the group Convicted Women Against Abuse created by inmate Brenda Clubine in 1989. By following five women's abusive experiences that led to their incarceration, the film take viewers on their journeys from victim to survivors, reveals the history of the Battered Women Syndrome in the state of California, and shatters misconceptions. This documentary is a production of Quiet Little Place Productions.

In 2011, the film had its television premiere on Investigation Discovery to over 2.2 million viewers.

Within the last couple of months Governer Brown signed the “Sin By Silence’ bills into law.

Investigation Discovery Channel is now reairing this program on October 24, 2012.  You can check out their website to see clips, and check which channel and time it will be available in your area.

 

No Way Out But One 

In 1994 Holly Collins became an international fugitive when she grabbed her three children and went on the run. It all happened because a family court had ignored Holly’s charges, the children’s pleas, Holly’s broken nose, Zackary’s fractured skull, and other medical evidence of domestic violence. The family court in Minnesota gave full custody of Zackary and Jennifer to Holly’s ex-husband. It was at that point that Holly came to believe she and the children had No Way Out But One.

In September of 2011, Holly and her children returned to North America.  All Charges were dropped, except for the ‘contempt of court’.

Documentary Channel is airing this program on 10/29/12, and you can check to see if your TV provider is available on the site.

Here and Now have an interview with this family, and what they are doing presently.

 

Domestic Violence and the Church

Video I found that interviews a woman, and a reformed man. The husband in this case stated that the Christian counseling wasn’t what they needed, because they were more concentrated on authority of the husband. He speaks of how he wasn’t served well by the church counseling, although I’m sure it was well intended.

 

Domestic Violence Facebook Pages

 

Break The Silence Facebook Page presents stories of people that are effected by domestic violence.  It also has resources for victims and their families.

 

Church Survivors Facebook Page

 

New Book on Domestic Violence

Should I Stay or Should I Go? New Book by Lundy Bancroft.

Here are two sample chapters for Lundy’s new Book.

Resources for the man that is serious about his change

and Chapter Two as well. What’s it All About

 

Domestic Violence and the Church articles

A open letter to John Piper about his view on divorce is written from a man’s prospective regarding the domestic violence he lived with, and how John Piper’s teachings on abuse, marriage, and divorced effected his life.

 

Your teaching has dangerous consequences: people like me read your words and take what you say very seriously. When you leave no room in your church for abused and broken divorcees, that has real world effects. I am such a broken person, and I do not know where I’ll end up. I am fighting the guilt and shame of divorcing my wife and I have to remind myself every day that my guilt and shame are not real – that there is no condemnation because I am in Christ. What I feel is based on how men like you view me, not how God views me. I hope that I can find believers with whom I can some day open up and have a trusting  relationship again. Right now I am scared to talk to any believers at all, for judgement is just a few words away. I know for certain I will never end up in your church and I will cringe every time you are quoted. It is difficult to respect a man who would call me to endure torture in a situation he does not understand.

 

Abuse and God’s Mercy: Martin’s Story is written by another man – also a victim of domestic violence in the church.  He was divorced, and remarried to a wonderful wife.  He speaks of his journey that God has place him on, and the rejection of him in ministry due to his remarriage.  Its an inspiring story of how faith helped him overcome, and learn to do God’s will for his life.

 

To the best of my knowledge, no church exists that would ordain a pastor with my background.  I rejoice in my service at the Mission and will wait on the Lord for the next opportunity.  At least now there’s no quit left in me.  God has given me enough trial to know – there’s no option besides perseverance for me.

There is a God in heaven that is more powerful than the nastiest group of Deacons, Elders, or Pastors.  He will show each of us His path for us to go, and He loves each of us no more than the other, that is without limit.

Less important than a pair of socks

Biblical Personhood writes a short story of over the top submission, and leaves everyone in the dust besides the father.

I was a teenager at the time. I was crying as I told my mother of my problem.

Then he bursts in. He does not await his turn to speak. He bellows: “There should be eight pairs of socks in my drawer and there are only seven!” My very submissive mother leaves me in the middle of my sob story, to go and find my father’s 8^th pair of socks.

It is not like he needs those socks right now, mind you. He is not on his way somewhere and desperately need the black socks to match his clothes. He simply dislikes the thought that not all his things are in the right places.

Silence and violence in the church is an article by Theological Curves

For five years I asked the seminary where I was teaching if we could have a chapel service that addressed family violence and abuse. I was dreaming of a service that offered hope for survivors and solidarity from those who had been impacted by violence directly or indirectly. For five years I was told in a variety of ways that abuse was not our concern nor an appropriate issue within a seminary. Some years it was a direct verbal message, other years I would be politely listened to and then would never hear a follow up or was told after the fact that all chapel times were already scheduled.

All of this despite the fact that recently one of the graduates from this seminary was convicted of murdering his wife and that every semester I had students in my office discussing their own past and current abuse.

The Issue at the Heart of Domestic Violence By Danni Moss – a friend of mine that has passed away.  I’m blessed that her family decided to keep her blog up, and her ministry alive by her words even after she passed.  We still miss you Danni!

 

Domestic Violence and Fundamentalist Christianity

The religion they practiced tended to focus on the darker aspects of Christianity. They focused on the sufferings of Christ on the cross, His torments. They focused on the torments of hell for unrepentant sinners. They focused on how BAD people were, how we were all born in sin and would die in sin, did we not repent, and suffer the torments of hell in the lake of fire forever!

There was no carrot in front of the donkey's nose: it was the devil with a pitchfork prodding the donkey from behind, all the way.

They also blamed EVE, for letting sin into the world. We were all children of Eve. They also had a peculiar relish in eschewing the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the Whore of Babylon, and the adulterous woman that Jesus saved from stoning. It was impressed on us as girl children that any immodesty on our part, the least bit of natural human curiosity about the opposite sex, was shamefully our fault and could lead to dire consequences here on earth in addition to damning us to hell forevermore. My mother was excessively modest, appearing to be frightened of and uncomfortable inside her own body. I think she wished not to have a body at all, and wished no one else did, either.

 

The Girl Effect, part 4  On this blog (Yeshua, Hineni!)there is a series of articles, and they are all worth reading!  I wanted to link to this one, and to point out the resources at the end.

I Want you to know, if you know someone, or if you are currently experiencing domestic violence - This is not what G-d calls you to. Find HOPE.  G-d wants you to have health and healing. He wants you to thrive. YOU ARE NOT CALLED TO BE "submissive" to abuse. This is not at all what G-d designed when the mandate after the Fall was given.  This is not what was given to us at Sinai. This is not the freedom that Y'shua brings, and that Paul heralds. It simply is not.

John MacArthur discounts the seriousness of abuse 

Barbara writes about YET another pastor that claims he ‘gets it’, but YET AGAIN clearly has no clue what he is talking about.

 

She starts her article off by quoting John MacArthur:

“If a violence-prone husband becomes agitated and abusive, the wife should remove herself from danger, by leaving the home if necessary. God has promised that He will not test us beyond our ability to endure, but will always make a way of escape (1 Corinthians 10:13). Sometimes escape is the only way. If you have children and they are in danger, take them someplace where you will be secure until you feel you may safely come back.
If you are not truly in any physical danger, but are merely a weary wife who is fed up with a cantankerous or disagreeable husband–even if he is an unbeliever who is hostile to the things of God–God’s desire is that you stay and pray and sanctify that husband by your presence as a beloved child of God (1 Corinthians 7:10-16). The Lord will protect you and teach you in the midst of the difficult time.

Just as John Piper, and many other pastors they never tell you to call the police.  They tell you to stay away until you feel it is safe to return.    The ‘deal with it’ attitude is what is killing the trust between Christ Followers, and the so called ‘leaders’ of the church.  Its irresponsible for pastor’s to speak of domestic violence in the church when it is clear they have NOT educated themselves on the issues, dangers, and damage.

 

Poems and Prose about domestic violence

 

The Last Straw lists poems about domestic violence. 

Poetry about children and domestic violence

 

What It Means To Be A Victim

A CHOSEN VESSEL

Will you love me to death?

SHATTERED PIECES

RECYCLED ROSE

Walls

You Can't

 

 

 

These are just some of the awesome sources that I have found within the last week, and I honestly can’t remember them all.  There has been so many good articles that cover this topic, and I know I’m missing SOME!

 

I also have many other resources on my Emotional Abuse and Your Faith resource links page that I try to add to regularly.

 

If you have any articles, facebook pages, videos, poems or prose about domestic violence and the church…or the world?  I would love for you  to share them here in the comment section!

Women in the Church Compared to Homosexuals

I was over at Shirley Taylor’s blog this morning, and she had written a piece called “They’ve stolen Jesus!”

 

The quotes she mentioned are patronizing, and shows the low opinion of the ‘other’ gender.  They can claim all they wish about how they LOVE women, but no offense I don’t wish to have their type of love.

 

If you look past the sugary spiritual pixie dust so many use instead of speaking in plain English?  The patronizing attitude is clear. 

 

We all know by now I suppose that supporters would RUSH to their defense, and say things like how they are misunderstood, etc.    How scripture is clear in their eyes as far as women in certain positions within the church.  What they don’t do?  Is separate their ‘belief’, and listen very closely to how it is being presented.

 

All these years of being ‘misunderstood’, and yet you see no true effort to clarify these things. Its tells you something.

 

We all have our own journeys we must travel in order to be led by the Holy Spirit, and to know in our hearts where God wishes us to go.  At times I will admit I wonder why some paths have to be so painful, and but I also realize God can use those hurtful things to bring us close to him.  He can use our experiences and challenges to help others.

 

I have people I know that are very uncomfortable with this topic, and don’t mean to offend but believe that women should not be in a place of leadership within the church.   What they never do is patronize others in their belief.  Honestly?  I don’t mind talking about this topic with them, because I know they will not attack – and know I would never attack either.  Strange how some can have a decent conversation without all the ugly stereotypes, and labeling isn’t it?

 

Those friends realize that you don’t compare women to homosexuality.  These friends would never throw the radical men hating feminist label at others while having a conversation.  They understand human dignity, and view others self worth as God would have them do.  YES we can disagree on many topics, and that doesn’t have to place us in the enemy camp. 

 

Presentation is Key

When we look at Jesus in the bible, and see his presentation we never see a patronizing attitude.  He will call out the religious leaders at the time, and he will point out how some will not be capable of living the life they say they want.  He never even went NEAR speaking down to people.

 

There seems to be a new marketing ploy in how to NOT talk about women in ministry.  Today they are compared to homosexuals.  They will speak with their sweet sugary spiritual pixie dust, and their followers just swoon and believe they didn’t mean it in a way that would be offensive. 

 

If you dare challenge them you must be one that wishes to be in leadership and usurp men, or of course labeled a feminist with all their radical ideas about what that means.  I for one am not interested in leadership.

 

Did you ever notice the threatening response to those that DO NOT cow town to how they believe?

 

Lets look at a quote from Shirley’s blog.

I have a PhD in ministry. I studied under Wayne Grudem, and did so well that Wayne Grudem urged me to get a PhD.  I asked him what I could do with a PhD?  He said “Teach children in Sunday school.”  I told him that I don’t need a PhD to teach children.  Finally Wayne Grudem could only come up with this: I could write books under the authority of some man.

If some could place their beliefs to the side about women in leadership, and LOOK at what is being said?  They would need to also replace the name ‘Grudem’ with Jack Flash or something as well!

 

Most people that are honest with themselves could see the patronising attitude.

patronising - (used of behavior or attitude) characteristic of those who treat others with condescension

superior - of or characteristic of high rank or importance; "a superior ruler"

Grudem realizes this ‘woman’ had  gift, and encouraged her to go further.  He was then reminded of his ‘group think’ about women when she asked her question, and he stumbled along with the rest of his parroted language.   Could it be the Holy Spirit’s way of knocking at his door?

 

I mean who in their right mind would recommend someone to and get their PhD to teach Sunday School? He caught himself in a fumble if you will.

 

Women compared to Homosexuality

 

I attended John Piper’s church.  I told John Piper of my calling into full time preaching/teaching.  John Piper said, “You are just like the homosexual, right desire, wrong gender.

Or

A church hired a graduate of The Master’s Seminary, founded by John MacArthur.  This seminary will not accept any women in leadership position and the seminary will not allow a woman to take Bible classes. This graduate told a church board: “Listening to a woman preach is like listening to a homosexual.”

I have to mention here that I don’t ride the ‘pet sin’ train of homosexuality.  I don’t agree with the demonizing people in this way.    I realize its really popular to do so, and then in the next breath chant the ‘love the sinner – hate the sin’.  I’m not one for parroting the popular lingo, especially when I don’t believe those that state this.  Its pretty plain how they feel by other statements they use, and quite frankly is shameful and hypocritical.   You can’t tell people you offer them grace, and then back stab them. 

 

I personally don’t understand the desire for the same gender okay? I don’t have to in order to realize their treatment by some Christians is sinful.  I believe most of the popular things that are said along these lines are more fear mongering than anything.  Its amazing to me that some seem to think they will saved when they are graded on a curve due to being straight.

 

The statements made by the two pastors do not show dignity and worth towards women.  They meant these things as derogatory statements towards both women and homosexuals.  Why?  As we know the word homosexuality is almost used a spiritual swear word in the church.  Its like the mean high school boys that are picking on a smaller boy by calling him ‘fag’ when they know he isn’t.

 

Women are the threat here!

 

Cindy Kunsman forwarded me a link this week about a church in the southern states that hired a female pastor.  The local ‘faith’ association quickly disassociated that church from their group. 

Only a week after Pastor Nelson’s first Sunday in the pulpit — on July 10, 2011 — Flat Rock Baptist Church

“received a letter from the association’s membership committee citing “concerned pastors” and asking for a meeting to discuss “possible solutions” to the issue they said threatened the fellowship of the association.”

These “concerned pastors” were so worried about the grave situation of a woman preaching in one of “their” churches that they had to act within a week of the young lady assuming her pastorate.  Don’t want to let her settle in or even meet her before moving to oust the church.  If I had to guess, these pastors would probably not be as gravely concerned about obese pastors preaching in one of their churches, as long as that overweight pastor was a man, but I digress!

I realize its not funny, but I do have giggle at the ‘threatened’ part.  Its quite amazing how much power they give away isn’t it?  They make it sound so ominous.  I guess it is to them, and that is why they react the way they do.  Its hard for me to understand personally.

 

When you have such a view of women?  Its easy I guess to speak in court like Chuck Phelps in the Tina Anderson Case.

 

Recently notes from the trial were posted online.  From what I have been told they are awaiting permission to get the actual transcripts.  The notes are from day five of the trial, and with Chuck Phelps speaking:

 

Phelps: Ernie Willis had more to lose than Tina Anderson. That is why I naturally assumed Tina was lying to me. I did not understand why Tina would go out to eat with Ernie, if he had just raped her. She was being dishonest. When I told her that, Tina turned and looked at me with anything but love on her face. The Bedford Inn is not McDonalds. They both went to the Bedford Inn for Tina’s birthday. Tina was very angry with me. So it was obvious this was consensual.

Wayne: Did your wife, Linda, ask Tina at one point if she “enjoyed it?”

Phelps: That is a lie! (starts crying). That is so outside the character of my loving wife! It was not a discipline service. I wanted to prepare the church for the news, and I knew the media would get ahold of this story, and I wanted to prepare our church family with how to deal with the false media reports. I wanted Trinity Baptist Church to know so they could embrace Tina and Ernie. If I am not a compassionate person, I am not fit for ministry.

I would never have someone involuntarily come before the church. Tina Anderson’s success as a person, her success in life, success as a mother, wife, teacher and citizen of America is all attributed to the loving church family she had here at Trinity Baptist Church. Some people have the inability to make good choices in life. This time of confession might have been interpreted as “painful” by Tina. The news media definitely made her story look painful. I can’t say this any stronger. I never said “forgive and forget.”

Wayne: Did you make Tina go and apologize to her stepfather while he was in jail? Did you make her ask forgiveness for his molesting her?

Phelps: If the social workers are telling Tina to work with her stepfather, and rebuild their relationship, then she should listen to them.

So when a pastor doesn’t agree with your story, and calls you a liar?  If you get upset about that you are then labeled guilty.  Keep in mind also they look to the one they feel has the most to lose, because THEY will be the truthful ones.  It goes against logic doesn’t it?

 

Stating that he presented to two cases separately – calling them a discipline action – then NOT a discipline action – then stating he had to do this to ‘prepare his church’ for WHAT they could not have known.  Why?  As far as everyone was concerned – they were told they were separate issues.  Notice the flip flops this man makes as well?

 

On a last note, I wanted to quote something from the blog The Unspoken Words that Mara mentioned this week in her blog.    Its speaks of some of the stereotypes we hear about women, and from the description you often – how women are a threat because they want to take over or something.  You hear stereotypes from dress, makeup, the way you walk, sit, talk and interact.  How you raise your children, treat your spouse, and if you step into the working world or stay at home.

 

It just resonated with me.

 

The women’s movement of the 1960s and 70s (and continuing today) fights hard against the idea that women are objects to be looked at. Women wear what they wear because they want to wear it. Maybe they want to look good to themselves. Maybe they want to look put-together for the next job interview. Maybe they want to correct a few perceived flaws like thin eyelashes. Maybe they want to look better in photographs.

But here’s another thought: what if the things women wear aren’t all about how they look?

• Some women wear bikinis to look attractive. Some wear them because they like the feeling of the sun on their skin and they don’t care if anyone looks at them.
• Some women wear pants so that they can take longer strides, ride horses or climb walls, not because they want to “usurp male authority.”
• Some women wear sleeveless dresses because they enjoy the freedom of movement in their arms and find such dresses comfortable in the summer.
• Some women wear high heels to look attractive, but some women also wear them to appear taller so that people will treat them with more respect.
• Some women wear nail polish because they enjoy looking down at the different colors and matching them to their outfits, not because men notice them.
• Some women wear makeup because they like playing with colors on their faces and feeling decked out makes them more confident, not because they want men to perceive them as more sexually desirable.
• A woman might even want to look attractive to a particular man, but not to all men under all circumstances.

You get the idea. The Message teaches that women are always, always, always constructing their daily lives around the male gaze. Everything they do is to attract men. Women, however, know from experience that it isn’t true. When I wear my swimsuit, it’s about my relationship with the sun, wind and water – it has nothing to do with a creepy lecherous dude who might ogle me as I walk by. (Trust me, they’ll ogle no matter what you wear – I’ve gotten sexually harassed in public more often in sweats and long skirts than I ever have in a swimsuit.) I’ll talk more about the dangers of the belief that women’s clothing has power over men’s behavior when I tackle Branham’s disfigurement of Matthew 5:28.

 

The way the preachers preach it?  They also objectify women. 

 

The last part where you mentioned she got ogled more often in her conservative dress?  Women can feel it without words being spoken.  Its strange how men pastor’s seem to think they can tell the world what women’s motivations are.  Somewhere along the line they lost sight of the dignity and worth that God sees in his creation.

 

Don’t get me wrong – we all know all men aren’t like this.  Yes!  Yes!  I realize ANYTIME you mention these things its like an attack on the entire gender.  Sit and back LOOK who screams the loudest.  They are normally like the ones mentioned here today.  How does the saying go again?

 

The squeaking wheel gets the grease! 

 

We are worth far more then those types give us credit for.  I’m thankful for the men that stand up and state this on our behalf.  I pray MORE do so as time goes along.

 

Women aren’t a threat to the church.  Homosexuality isn’t a threat to the church.  Pastors that preach bigotry?  I think we have something there.