Is this the model of manhood?

What is it about decision making that makes people so insecure?

 

Recently on Equality Central there was a discussion about a men’s conference in which part of the focus was the outright contempt for feminism.  The author mentioned that the speaker, Voddie Baucham had geared up this popular target of contempt to the point that SOME men actually acted out against it.  (Or did they actually act out what Voddie was preaching?) Due to the fact it was a men’s conference, and it sounded like had a huge audience they also opened up the women’s bathrooms for breaks for the men in attendance.   Paul  Doshe, the blogger in question not only wrote online about had huge issues with the doctrine that was being taught, but the fact that some men felt the need to urinate all over the women’s restroom after hearing about the dreaded ‘man haters’.  We are not talking normal misses that happen – especially with older men – but puddles.  Keep in mind the author was speaking about his own personal observations. 

 

Unfortunately, Paul was asked to meet with some of the church leaders about his article on the conference.  It ended up resulting in a phone call to the pastor, and the author issued an apology for not submitting his views on the conference to that pastor prior to publication.   Paul also made the decision to remove his opinion piece, but at that point I had already saved a copy for today’s discussion and have preserved it online.  Personally?  We don’t need a pastor’s permission slip for opinions and personal observations.  When a pastor wants to play the ‘forgiveness’ game, and manipulate it in a way that you may question your salvation?  Its insecurity talking – not decision making.  It’s a common tactic.   The old:  You must ask my forgiveness for the offense, and I will forgive you (on my terms). 

 

The pastor missed the bigger picture.

 

The pastor would discuss the small part of Paul’s article speaking about the ‘puddles’, but refused to speak about the problematic distortions of doctrine Paul was taking issue with.   Paul mentioned the pastor forgave him after he asked for his forgiveness over the conflict of his opinion of the conference. 

 

The first thought I had was if this was a glowing review there would have been no phone call, no asking and receiving of forgiveness.  No permission slip needed. 

 

Church Image or Doctrine

 

Dr. Voddie Baucham spoke at the conference about culture wars – a popular topic – and yet it seems the culture of ‘church image’ never entered this pastor’s mind and heart.  The church and the conference had an image to uphold, and that sadly was first and foremost in this pastor’s mind.

 

The pride issue came to mind also, because it seems since this pastor made the author feel in some way the need to apologize for his observations.  The man’s overall take of the conference – and the bigger issues at hand – were not worth spending time on.   Yes, the thought of the author caving also crossed my mind.

 

Paul recently put up a final opinion piece in which he felt he did the right thing by removing his views, and how he feels ‘caving’ wasn’t the issue.  It does sound like he felt convicted to remove the original piece, but the way his addendum was replaced shortly after removal concerned me.  After some time dwelling on this I figured he placed addendum up before truly thinking it out completely and clearly.  Sigh – I can relate to that myself!

 

The actions of the pastor shows the contradictions that this doctrine pushes a person to conclude. 

 

We hear all the time on how people should approach men with a aspect of respect and honor.  I guess that part is only reserved for wives and children.  Men on Men doesn’t count.  I wonder if they asked themselves if Jesus would agree with that?!  Voddie stated in his sermon at the conference to model behavior for others, but again that must only be for ‘certain’ others.

 

Compassion towards Paul doesn’t seem to register with this pastor either.  Clearly, Paul’s doctrinal issues were more important than certain men acting in a immature way in the women’s bathroom.  The image of these men, the bathroom, the church, Voddie and the conference were much more important to the pastor.  Remember these types are the first to remind people that people allow their ‘emotions’ to run this lives, and are quick to remind you that ‘feelings’ in this sense are unreliable.  Is that only for women and children?  I mean the pastor that hosted the event’s emotions clearly overtook him.

 

The thought of the Shepherd leaving his flock to find the one lost sheep comes to mind. The pastor seems to be telling the world, ‘Hey!  We fed him didn’t we!”

 

It seems that not only do women have a hard time getting answers from these types, but men do also.  That is not surprising to me, but it seems to contradict their entire message of the conference they led.  Is this a good example of their Discipleship & Education?  I guess it wouldn’t be the first time a pastor held a conference of this type, but decided he didn’t need to heed the message of the conference his own church is marketing.  Pretty sad state of affairs.

 

It reminds of the dynamic that Al Miles speaks about when it comes to him speaking at churches about domestic violence.  He is invited all over the country to give presentations of domestic violence, but sadly it was the pastors of those churches that wouldn’t be in attendance.  He made a future policy that he would only lead the conference if they – the pastors of the church - agreed to be there.  Sounds like Voddie needs to do the same thing.

 

Voddie’s Culture Wars – Always a popular Topic!

 

Voddie had some good things to say, but he also had some rather far out opinions as well. 

 

For example, he would speak about how husbands and fathers need to truly be involved with family life.  They have to be more than ‘airport dads’.  An airport dad is a man that comes home from work, and sits on the sofa to watch television or read his paper.  Mom is running around pretty much doing everything else in life.  His paycheck is nearly his entire contribution to his family.  He states later that some men more identify themselves by their job titles.  He gave an example of how ‘work life’ had to take a back seat to his home life.  He then showed how most families do the opposite.  For instance, if work needs something family must take a second seat, and how it should be the opposite.

 

Whether it be mom or dad I will agree the above to be true.

 

Most of Voddie’s views on feminism are not based in fact.  He used Gloria Steinem as an example of a ‘man hater’, and later mentioned how women just a notch up the food change to the serpent in the Garden of Eden.  I doubt very much he watched the documentary of Gloria (click the link to watch it) – in her own words as it was called recently on HBO.  They showed clips from her past, and also more recent interviews.  They actually address the ‘man hater’ and ‘gender sameness’ junk we hear about all the time.  Sadly, it seems Dr. Baucham was misinformed in a number of areas.

 

There is a myth that we believe.
There is a myth that we promote, and this myth is that feminism grew because men stepped away from their roles.

Man stopped being who and what they were supposed to be, and so feminism grew as a result of that.  Folks that is so incredibly naïve!

Feminism is actually a a reaction to strong manhood. It's not a reaction to weak manhood. Feminism is rebellion against strong manhood.

The feminist movement did not….when you talk about modern feminist movement most people do not realize the feminist movement goes way back to the 1800s.  When you talk about the modern feminist movement you talk about people like Gloria Steinem and people like this from the 1960s.

BUT even then these people were not saying men are stepping up and being men. No! They are saying we hate men!

- statement from Voddie Baucham at the conference in question

 

I guess for some the cliché is true about if you repeat myths enough times its truth to some.  Strange practice coming from a Pastor I must say.  The Bible states how we are to love our enemies, and pray for them.  I don’t understand how this campaign of contempt against feminism can EVER come across as anything but contempt when they use generalizations, myths and dare I say lies against others.  When common sense is used actions speak louder than words, and I pray that most don’t model that behavior.  I will add that even if it WERE true, the contempt still would NOT be justified.

 

The mocking of men and women isn’t uplifting, and using that to shepherd others (which Voddie taught at the Conference) is far from encouraging.  YES, I did listen to his message to understand where Paul was coming from (i.e.: harsh aspects of the message). 

 

In one example, Dr. Baucham spoke about an example of man that came to him because he didn’t approve of his daughter's choice for a future spouse.   Dr. Baucham asked him what his daughter said when he spoke to her about this, and the man replied that he and his daughter didn’t have much of a relationship.  You then got to hear about how this man expected Baucham to ‘fix this’ for him.    I doubt that is what the man said, but that is what the Dr. took from the conversation.  Dr. Baucham continued on what he must have felt was a humorous rant about how this man was an awful father, and what the heck did he expect HIM to do about his circumstance.

Pastor I need your help!

Why?

Well because my daughter came back with a really really really bad candidate, and I have no idea what to do!

Well sit down and talk to your daughter.

I really don't have a relationship with my daughter.
So I was hoping that maybe you could - I don't know - maybe you as a minster 's could help?

Really what did you prepare your daughter to look for?

Yeah well we really didn't talk about that.

Okay, let me see if I get this right:
You don't have a relationship with your daughter.
You didn't prepare her for what to look for.
She came back with somebody you disapprove of, and now you want somebody else to fix the mess that you made!
In other words you just said to me:

Pastor I just planted in Apple tree in my backyard now apples are starting to grow on it. Can you help me with that?

(giggles)

You can't say amen you can only say OUCH!

(giggles)

-Transcript from  Voddie at conference

Ouch if Voddie Baucham feels this shows strong manhood! I hope his story was hot air, and he did offer the man more than what he mentioned.  He came to him for advice, and not a list of cut downs.  Jesus would have us be honest but showed compassion as well.  In a broken world this broken man needed something besides being the brunt of jokes for his presentation.

 

Dr. Baucham does very well with his presentation skills, but the message at times was far from edifying.   It creates a ‘us against them’ mentality.  Yes, the bible does say in Romans 12:2:

Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect.

 

No offense but ridicule is of the world, and we see it all the time in books, articles, television, radio, politics, power struggles etc.  We can speak of broken people, and their broken relationships without being cruel about it.  Although he did have some good things to say he also came across as the school yard bully in other ways.    This culture loves to use ridicule, and seeing a pastor use it also takes so much away from anything good he may want to convey.  Its not a hard jump to mention NOT good modeling behavior.  He could do so much better.

 

Don’t be insecure in your decision making

 

The audios from the conference are online.   I have downloaded some of them so they don’t disappear online after a while as well.  I will post them soon.

 

The blogger Paul mentioned Romans 16:17

And now I make one more appeal, my dear brothers and sisters. Watch out for people who cause divisions and upset people's faith by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them.

 

God isn’t asking for the ‘us against them’ attitude from his people.  That does not show his love for this world, and for his creation.   Awful Fathers, Dreadful Feminists, men that leave puddles of urine in bathrooms for others to clean up, and YES even the pastor of the church and Dr. Bauchman himself are all sinners and in need of grace.  We would be nothing if it were not for Jesus.  The thought of that should humble us all.

 

Audio Programs like this conference tend to disappear due to insecurity.  Manipulating, and asking for a public apology from a blogger that is not warranted is as well.  The pastor from this church modeled that behavior for us – showing he is more concerned with image then he was about the hard edge of the teachings at the conference.  No, I don’t think that was what you (men who attended) should have gleamed from the conference.  Your not suppose to talk about that though, but most especially DON’T talk about the urine puddles.

 

Additional Articles I found regarding this conference:

 

Complementarianism, Scapegoats, and New Meaning to the “Fountain” at Bellefontaine

Pulpit condoning

Complementarian men symbolically urinate on women

Complementarian men symbolically urinate on women

Follow The Leader Attitude

The other day I was speaking to the well known author, Jocelyn Andersen.  I remember I was telling her that I was a bit disturbed about the fact when I read articles on major Christian websites about domestic violence - they are genetic.  They generally say the same thing over, and over again.  To me there is no meat and potatoes there at all.

WELL someone upstairs must have been listening to me, because an article was placed in my email box today.  Christian Today had an article called, Towards an effective church response to domestic abuse.

“Restored is driven forward by two questions,” says Peter. “Where is the church and where are the men?”

The resource, Ending Domestic Abuse, is an attempt to answer the first question. It’s still being drafted and the final version is expected to come out sometime in 2011.

The answer to the second question is a new campaign to be launched in the next few months, First Man Standing. As the name suggests, the campaign is challenging men to be the first man to stand up in their church, in their sports clubs, in their workplace, or whatever group setting they may be in, and speak out about domestic violence.

I will be the first one to admit that woman that are outside domestic violence relationships are just plain awful in the viewpoints as well.  All you have to do is go to a forum online, and its clear as day.  It certainly doesn't matter what the gender is either.

The First Man Standing to me means stop 'following the leader'.  Its the group think and banter that is encouraged to be repeated, and the peer pressure to keep it there.

I have noticed if you are talking about a member of the family OUTSIDE of what they consider your 'immediate' family their approach is a bit different.  The article doesn't go into that viewpoint as much, but that isn't the purpose of their introduction so it makes sense why they don't.

For me personally I'm looking forward to hearing more about their program 'First Man Standing'.  Its not because the statistics state that more often women are the victims.  I don't personally look at this issue as gender based one.  It effects everyone and anyone.  The abusive individual - gender aside - effects men and women alike (this includes children).  I was more looking at it, because of the way the church views 'men's roles' within family, society and church.

If we look at how church approaches life for minute?  They concentrate a great deal on the man as the leader, the head, the authority of the family.  Yes, I'm speaking about what some view as the 'biblical roles'.  In a way his attitudes towards things should reflect what his family believes.  The man 'represents' the family type of thinking.  There is alot of peer pressure around this, and you see it in the attitude of men and women alike.

If you look at 'human nature' and not just concentrate on gender / roles for a moment?  Attitudes towards gender wouldn't be acceptable for his family, but would be more palatable towards others.   I'm talking in a general sense here, because we all know there are exceptions.  You read type of principal in loads of articles, books, and commentaries about the family all the time.  I'm talking the 'us against the world' with the examples they present.

I think it would indeed help everyone if we could place those stereotypes to the side, and recognize that we all at times use them.  If there was a way of changing that?  It would indeed help everyone in society overall.

First Man Standing is about challenging the behaviour of peers, modelling good behaviour and speaking up for positive relationships.

Peter continues: “There is a lot of peer group pressure to behave in a certain way. If you look at stag nights, the behaviour on these nights is all about what’s acceptable in a group and you need to be a courageous man to stand up in that group. There are other issues like language and jokes demeaning women. It’s about changing culture and challenging what is acceptable.”

I'm sure some of us can admit there are indeed 'peer pressure attitudes' towards issues within the church.  If you again just look at some discussions online you will see people attacked for coloring outside the lines.  It would be rather naive of others to claim such attitudes are not present within the church, but just online with 'those' people.

Its hard to admit I guess for some that there is a spirit of right and wrong approaches to what they seem to say is clearly written in scripture.  Pointing out such examples seems to be a source of defensiveness instead human nature and reality for some.

Since we hear about the women point of view in that realm a lot I wanted to point out something I saw recently that happened to a man.

I was reading a thread about man speaking of the 'entitled' attitude his wife (whom I believe is deceased at this point).  He believed in supporting his family, but he also spoke about how she should have support role as well.

I'm not talking about the spouse working outside the home, but basically a person that is a sloth.  I guess today we would call a sloth a lazy bum.  The wife in question expected to be served, and the man in question either had to do things within the home or pay someone to do them.  SHE was entitled to be taken care of.  In other words, there was no mutuality within this relationship.

He brought up this example of his wife up in another discussion of a family with two children.  The children were older, and due to the economy they had fallen on very serious hard times.  The husband in question requested that she help for a while, until things changed with their financial circumstance.

She dug in her heels and refused to get a job, because that would be outside her role.  HIS role was to 'provide'.  This the basic idea of the circumstance that I read, but I didn't see the whole discussion.  The second thread was started by the man, because of the 'entitled' attitudes of women charging to her defense of NOT working.

This man got dumped on.  The spirit of what was in scripture was ignored, and defensive responses followed.

• He didn't believe in providing for his family.
• He believed that she needs to provide her own income, and he will provide his - and the two will never meet.
• He doesn't value the job of the Stay at Home mother
• He concentrates to much on his wife that has passed, and not the value of the wife he is married to now.
• He spends to much time feeling sorry for himself.

You notice that none of their points have ANYTHING to do with the principal he was attempting to point out?

The couple he was speaking about wasn't going 'send their children to daycare to raise' since they were old enough to stay home by themselves.  The wife wasn't asked to work a full time career, but due to the scarey times was asked to give some much needed relief to their financial circumstance presently. 

If read between the lines with the responses this man got?  The women would have been more than happy to help if they also were in serious financial hardship (if their husband asked this of them), but due to this 'peer' attitude that women should be at home always?  They followed the banter and group think they are taught to follow.

The people that pointed out they missed the point completely?  They were told 'their points' made sense, but that wasn't what he was saying.  Sigh!

If you look again at what they were saying about the stag party?

Peter continues: “There is a lot of peer group pressure to behave in a certain way. If you look at stag nights, the behaviour on these nights is all about what’s acceptable in a group and you need to be a courageous man to stand up in that group. There are other issues like language and jokes demeaning women. It’s about changing culture and challenging what is acceptable.”

The principal of what the author is stating above is what happened to the man I was writing about.  The language and the jokes in the thread I read were demeaning to this man, and others like him.

He wasn't speaking about a family with a stay at home mom, and a man that was providing financially for the family in the traditional sense.  He was speaking about a woman that was taking advantage of this accepted viewpoint, and using it to her advantage.  She was basically selfish and cruel.

He was attempting to continue to make his point in regards to how his present wife approaches their marriage.  At this point in their lifes both of them decided they wanted to work part time instead of just 'retiring'.  He did mention he wouldn't have an issue with her just being a 'stay at home wife', but she made it very clear she wanted to work part time.

I think like alot of people that have worked all their lifes she felt uncomfortable just staying home, and being 'retired' in the traditional sense.  The man mentioned he had to respect that point of view, because he pretty much felt the same way.  He didn't want to 'retire' in the traditional sense either.

You could tell by how he said this the mutual respect and love they had for each other.  His point was his current wife wouldn't question if they were in a financial crisis about stepping up, and helping to support their family.  It was the attitude - the spirit of his wife and how to biblical handle the circumstance.

I was amazed at how these women were getting defensive, and felt like their 'role' within the family was being attacked.  The shear number of them, and how much they ignored the man's point of view?  It showed you what is seen as 'acceptable' to speak about, and what clearly isn't.  The discussion had nothing to do with their personal family life, but more about the attitude of his deceased wife's attitude towards - well - HERSELF!

It seemed so strange to me how these ladies admitted that they would go back to work, and some of them even had done this under similar circumstances - YET couldn't admit this man had a point.

The church can say what they want, but their 'follow the leader' attitude is clear as day.  It sets up this 'us against them' gender war, and also the treasured 'us against them' world versus church folks as well.

Myself and many others have followed the 'First Man Standing' principal.  I have been tossed aside, accused of things like the man above was, belittled and the rest.  I have noticed though that once those brave few do stand up?  You had additional 'few' that tend to stand along with you.  I have had men and woman come along side of me, and repeat how I had good points.  They would continue to validate that with their additional personal ones.

Its hard not to follow the leader due to the peer pressure you find within the church.  Its not easy to be the First Man Standing either.  The small pockets of brave people will continue to grow when more are brave enough to follow.  Its not about gender and its not about 'world versus the church'.  Its about the poisoning the principals and true spirit of how God would wish to treat others.

No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry

Freedom for Christian Women Coalition having busy uploading the videos from their conference.  Its nice to be able to see these men and women in action, and able to watch the expression, body language that doesn't always come across as well in writing. 

I have problems with buffering at times with videos online.  Buffering in short means when the video stops and starts all the time, and it basically annoys me having to wait.  People will be getting me so excited, and BAM right in the middle their sentence I have to WAIT 10 million years for the video to finish loading to hear them finish!  Isn't that annoying?

On VIMEO they have uploaded entire segments of the program they put on, and they also mentioned this site has a section where you can download them.  Keep in mind that video downloads can be pretty large, and you may wish to burn it to a DVD or delete once you are done viewing.

Here is the link to the Freedom for Christian Women Coalition's entire video library, and descriptions.

Jocelyn Andersen, Author of her newest book Woman this is WAR! Gender, Slavery & the Evangelical Caste System did a presentation responding to the Danvers Statement of the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood by offering their own set of "Rationales" and "Affirmations."


Responding to the Danvers Statement from FreeCWC on Vimeo.

I downloaded the entire thing to listen to, and you can view this after you download them in real player, quick time, or DIVX players.  All of those are free for download, and I would update the software completely so you get the smoothest play.

In this video she goes over some of the reasons for the demand for apology from CBMW.  If you wish to see that document again here is a link to her site on Woman Submit blog.

I personally don't expect a reaction from CBMW over the document, because they tend to ignore challenges like this all the time.  Healthy organizations will encourage dialog, and as you imagine the opposite is true of those that refuse.   

No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.  This one will get you branded "rebellious".

Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

Feminism! Individuality! Decaying western society! Government! Public Schools! Television! Hollywood! Rock music! Processed food! Doctors! Lukewarm Christians! Did I mention feminism? This is a movement NURTURED on paranoia with a persecution complex that's the stuff of legend.

 The reactions so far that I have seen that try to 'support' the Danver's statement once the Demand for the Apology went out?  The above was the reactions.  They were rebellious, and just a group of feminist trouble makers.  If you read their responses?  They never stepped foot towards addressing any of the concerns.  Can we say RED FLAG?  I showed an example in my article about divert!  Divert!  DIVERT!
(By the way, Commandments of men has a complete list of these quotes, and other characteristics of unhealthy organizations!)

The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

The author that rebuked Shirley Taylor loves to divert (and never tries to address any concerns) is telling when you look at his last statement about knowing the 'truth':

Taylor wonders who will speak up for women. I’m thankful the council speaks up for God. Does not the Potter have a right over the clay?

 Its quite telling isn't it? HIS leaders speak up for God.  Her concerns are not credible. 

Gender Equality denies differences between male and female!

I just finished Woman this is WAR! By Jocelyn Andersen author of another book called, Woman Submit!

It was Chapter 20 called, Smokescreens, Mantras and Slogans that truly resonated with me today.  I think that is because we see these parroted statements all the time, and yet there is no foundation to it.  In fact if you truly stop to hear the statements, and not just take some ‘organization’ or ‘authors’ word for it?  You can see and feel the twists and turns they take to make a point out of pretty much lies.

Gender Equality denies differences between male and female!

From the time we are born it doesn’t take your parents to point it out to you that there are indeed differences.  I mean seriously?  What a silly statement!

There are intrinsic differences between the genders that would be impossible for anyone to change.  You can deny it all you want to, but with most people if you do claim this?  They are going to wonder about your sanity.


CBMW claims that gender equality makes ‘men become more like women, and women become like men’ intrinsically.  What they are truly trying to get across?  Women that wish equality resent men’s authority that we claim God gave us.

Matthew 7:

A Tree and Its Fruit

 15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

If we look at history anyone can see that women have been fighting for basic ‘human’ rights.   They were not trying to be men at all.  The same lame statements had been made of women of the past as well.

The ‘place’ of women if you will, and their basic rights as humans is what they are striving for.  They aren’t looking to abandon their families, abort their babies, run all over men, and ‘have it all’.  I mean according to their theory if women are trying to be like men?  Are they saying men want it all?

Links of Interest!

Links of Interest

Jocelyn Andersen has finally released her new book, Woman this is War!

“Woman this is WAR!...,” takes a new look at old arguments traditionally used to keep men and women enslaved in illegitimate bondage based on sex, and just as the Bible did not condone the sin of slavery based on skin color, it also does not condone a slavery-like caste system based on gender. Jesus said we would know the truth and the truth would set us FREE. Andersen challenges Christian men and women to embrace and appreciate God-given gender differences without giving place to haughty spirits of superiority, degrading feelings of inferiority, hatred, prejudice, fear of one another’s differences, or the sinful need to either be in charge or to submit in an idolatrous manner.

I have to mention you will enjoy her footnotes just as much as the information she shares.  I also enjoy history, and she discloses history in a way that others may not wish to have it remembered.  I plan on writing more about this book at a later date!

Quivering Daughters is another book that has been released recently, and Hillary has been speaking about it as she wrote it on her blog.  You can read her first chapter that she shares on the Quivering Daughters blog itself. 

"It is a grave disservice to the heart, soul, body and spirit of a woman when she is given the subtle message that the truth of her own pain is not as important as the reputation of the ones who inflict it."

Waneta Dawn, author of Behind the Hedge wrote an article called:  Predicting Which Husband will Murder his Wife .

However, the domestic violence workers say the best predictor of domestic murder is verbal/emotional abuse. What causes a person to use verbal/emotional abuse against the very person they claim to love? It is an attitude and belief of entitlement. The belief that he is entitled to have his way, to have what he wants. Verbal and emotional abuse are caused by the belief that he is entitled to cast the deciding vote, to have authority that his spouse does not have. It is a belief in his own superiority, that the rules don’t apply to him.

Commandments of Men had an article that was very touching:

Men defying scripture to become "high priest of the home". Unfortunately for this methodology, the Spirit of God doesn't reside in a temple made by man (Acts 17:24) and doesn't dwell in the "home". This negates the need for any "high priest of the home", as the high priest, literally defined, is one who deals with God on behalf of the people. WE are the temple. I repeat...WE are the temple. WE, through the completed work of Christ, house the Spirit of God within us. There is ONE who deals with God on our behalf: Jesus Christ (1st Timothy 2:5). All of the scripture speaks against the notion of "the high priest of the home". It's a dangerous, destructive, and spiritually abusive idea. No more need for a high priest. We have a perfect and eternal High Priest who doesn't need our help. His work is complete.

Suzanne's Bookshelf wrote:  What does Wifely Submission look like?

We understand that CBMW teaches that men may have to "reestablish rulership" over their wife, and "exert leadership." This is a proactive attempt to ensure that the wife does submit. The language for leadership of the wife, is similar to that of the children, and the question may be asked by the husband "how do I enforce subordination?" The husband may resort to punitive measures.

But what does CBMW say that submission of the wife looks like?

Its very thought provoking!

Words of a Fether issued: An Example of CBMW Dogma

At this link you will find what CBMW views as a summary of the complementarian/egalitarian debate. Here is my analysis.

The summary of the egal. position seems fair enough, if over-simplified. But the summary of the comp. position seems to have been written as though they forgot what they just said about the egal position. Hopefully they’re only reciting the positions and not issuing the comp side as the rebuttal. We’ll see.

Under I-A they start off with the adjectives: ” the male was given the responsibility of loving authority over the female, and the female was to offer willing, glad-hearted and submissive assistance to the man”. Take away the over-used adjectives and the teaching is much clearer: in spite of there being scriptural grounding for full equality before sin, the woman is asserted to be the underling of the man. They engage in circular reasoning by first presuming that Gen. 2 “bears out” different “expressions” of humanity (no specific verses are cited, since none exist), then presuming that this assertion is what Paul would later read there as well. They change the true complementarity of male and female (like the left and right hands) into the hierarchy of dominance and submission, which somehow is made legitimate by flowery adjectives alone.

Very interesting read, and also she has very good points!

Shirley Taylor of Baptist Women for Equality's Blog was one of the Seneca Falls speakers I spoke about recently.

She wrote an article, called 'What SBC pastors won’t tell men'.  It's about a preacher that preaches the Danver's Statement to the extreme, and how he arrogantly shouted during a sermon '“Women, if you don’t like it, take it up with Peter.  He’s the one that said it.  I just read it.”  Nice huh?  Anyway, she wrote him a quick note afterwards...

Thanks for taking the time to write. I’m sorry you see the SBC position as a “hard line stance against women.” I would respectfully disagree. I believe the SBC has accurately interpreted the Scriptures and desires to obey our loving Lord on this issue.

This is obviously a cause you are very passionate about and committed to, and there is little chance of me changing your mind. But if you are genuinely interested in learning more about what the Bible teaches on this subject and would be willing to yield to God’s teaching, I would be happy to pass along some Scriptures and recommended reading.

After I got his email, my husband checked him out on his website. This pastor had just finished a 12 part sermon and he summed it up in the last sermon by saying:

“men are ordained to be the head of the household, and the church.”  Same old story.  Men are ordained to lead, and it is just women stopping them again.  How big is that apple?

He is in California and I had great hopes that he would be supportive!  But you can see his mind is as closed as mine is when it comes to equality for women.

I wrote back and said, “I got a chuckle out of your reply.  I was so with you when you talked about my passion, but then you told me I had a closed mind and was unwilling to yield to God’s teaching.”

Then I said, “I’ll see you in heaven someday.  I guess I will be in the women’s section.  I’ll wave.”

I had to giggle at her response to his passive aggressive response to her.

Anyway, this is my partial list of links of interest!  I have more, but ran out of time!

Recommended Reading For Emotional Abuse

Book Recommendations - If you have suggestions please share!





Behind The Hedge

Written by Waneta Dawn
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Waneta's Blog Submission Tyranny, in Church and Society

Book Description:
Yearning for a warm and loving marriage, Yvette works hard as a housewife and on their Iowa dairy farm to satisfy her husband, Luke, and tries to motivate him to be a loving and caring husband and father. But hidden behind his charming public facade, Luke is critical and demands more submission. With the help of her friend, Delores, Yvette grapples with the meaning and application of Biblical submission to her husband, changes how she relates to her husband, and endeavors to correct the misbeliefs of their teenaged sons, Greg and Kyle. Luke indoctrinates his wife and children on the meaning of submission and obedience. But one day he goes too far. Will their marriage survive the storm? Will Luke become the warm and loving husband Yvette craves? Will their daughter, Tanya, learn to trust her father?



Would the Real Church PLEASE Stand UP!

Written by Susan Greenfield
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Susan Greenfield's Would the Real Church PLEASE stand UP! Blog

Book Description:
You will be challenged to Be the Real Church and Stand Up as you read this up close and personal account of living in an abusive environment. We can never know exactly what goes on behind the closed doors of other people's homes, but after reading Would the Real Church PLEASE Stand Up!, you will be more equipped to minister to victims of domestic violence. Maybe the victim is a neighbor, a co-worker, or a bank teller. Maybe the victim is your minister's wife. If you are in an abusive relationship, you will be encouraged and enlightened. Susan Greenfield is currently a divorced mother of two children. She works a secular job but is most passionate about ministering to battered women and educating people within the church about domestic violence.




Woman Submit!

Written by Jocelyn Andersen

Woman Submit Blog

Book Description:
The evangelical Christian woman whose spirit is being crushed and life possibly endangered by domestic violence is faced with a unique burden. She needs straight answers-not unrealistic expectations or clichéd, stereotypical platitudes. In the book Woman Submit! Christians & Domestic Violence, by Jocelyn Andersen, she will get straight answers, clear scriptural direction, and some tough challenges from one who has been there but is there no longer.

Jocelyn's Newest book



Woman this is WAR! Gender, Slavery & the Evangelical Caste System


"Woman this is WAR...," Examines arguments traditionally used to keep men and women enslaved in illegitimate bondage based on sex, and just as the Bible did not condone the sin of slavery based on skin color, it also does not condone a slavery-like caste system based on gender. Jesus said we would know the truth and the truth would set us free. Andersen challenges Christian men and women to embrace and appreciate God-given gender distinctions without giving place to haughty spirits of superiority, degrading feelings of inferiority, hatred, prejudice, fear of one another's differences, or the sinful need to either be in charge or to submit in an idolatrous manner.





Not Under Bondage

Written by Barbara Roberts
Google Preview of Browse Not Under Bondage

Book Description:
The bible's teaching on divorce and remarriage has been interpreted in many ways. This poses a problem for the Christian community. When is divorce biblically permissible and when is it forbidden? And is remarriage ever permissible for a divorced Christian? The problem is particularly intense for Christian victims of marital abuse, who often believe they must choose between two unpleasant alternatives: endure abuse, or face condemnation by God and his church for disobeying the bible. Not Under Bondage, written by a survivor of domestic abuse, - explains the scriptural dilemmas of abuse victims - carefully examines the scriptures and scholarly research - shows how the bible sets victims of abuse free from bondage and guilt.




Breaking The Silence


Written By Anne O. Weatherholt Google Preview of Breaking the Silence: The Church Responds to Domestic Violence

Book Description:   



A handbook about domestic violence from a spiritual perspective, and the only one of its kind, Breaking the Silence contains important, action-oriented information about domestic violence and its pervasiveness in society. Sections include “myths” about domestic violence; a checklist to determine if a relationship is potentially violent; clergy resources for counseling, worship, and congregational outreach; rape; information for youth; and pages that can be customized with local and national contact numbers, e-mail addresses, and websites. Also includes questions for discussion and suggestions for using the book for training or as a youth and adult education tool.

This resource is limited to adult abuse, as the subject of child abuse is highly specialized and often includes many more laws and involvement from local agencies that will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

We Suffered In Silence


Virginia and Robert Coombs have released “We Suffered in Silence,” which includes the courageous true story penned by deceased author Velva B. Holt, Virginia’s mother, about the devastating abuse she suffered while she was a pastor’s wife and the refusal of Church leaders to acknowledge the problem.

Book Description:
Dick had Good looks and Charisma. How could his parishioners know, or believe, that behind the Parsonage door, their beloved Pastor hid the Ugly Secret - of "deception." His 'emotional battering' stripped his wife, Carol, of her Self-Worth, Identity and Respect. His family "Suffered in Silence" while hiding, ever Darkening Spots, on his "Clerical Collar." Even Dick's Employer refused to believe the pleadings of his wife. * Are You a Pastor's Wife-hiding your shame of abuse behind makeup and an artificial smile? * Does Your 'Christian' Husband-use the Bible to Batter you into believing that you are a failure as a Christian and a wife? Religious Leaders MUST address the Explosion of domestic violence that hides behind the 'protected' doors of the Parsonage and the Christian home. The Church has been Silent and in Denial too long. Robert Coombs MA, In his Chapter, "The Blameless Man?" suggests ways in which Pastors and Christian Men can avoid stress, addictive behaviors and keep from falling into the 'Woman Trap.' He also recommends that the Church and Religious Organizations require accountability for their members and employees who are physically and emotionally abusive. Mable Dunbar, Ph.D., in her Chapter, "The Power of Emotional Healing" shows that "A Broken Woman or Man CAN be Repaired!" You don't need to "Suffer In Silence" anymore. By reading this book you can take the first step to Breaking the Silence. No more hiding; No more shame. You are "PRICELESS-NOT WORTHLESS" "For God has not given you the spirit of fear, but of Power, of Love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7 Velva B. Holt - As a pastor's wife, she was involved in Women's Ministry, and was an accomplished pianist and music teacher. As an author, she had over 200 Christian Articles and poems published.

Violence Among Us


Written by Paula Silva and Brenda Branson


Book Description:
This book offers practical help in identifying abusive situations. It has strategic counseling tips, case studies and models of effective ministry to both the victim and the perpetrator. There are resource lists which include domestic violence hotlines and shelters, faith-based organizations, abuser treatment programs, and information on legal and safety issues.

The Verbally Abusive Relationship

Written by Patricia Evans
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Book Description:

Are you now, or have you ever been, in relationships with family, friends, or mates who have been verbally abusive? Is your happiness with someone you love continually threatened by interactions that continually undermine your self-esteem? Do you feel trapped in a relationship that keeps decaying in a downward spiral of overt or passive-aggressive abuse? If so, this book could be your life raft, either carrying you toward repair of the existing relationship or the effects of past relationships or offering liberation from your current confusion. Its practical approach can help clear your head and possibly change your life. Highly Recommended.

Why Does He Do That?  Inside the minds of Angry and Controlling People
Written By Lundy Bancroft
Google Preview of Why Does He Do That?

Book Description:

Women in abusive relationships tell themselves these things every day. Now they can see inside the minds of angry and controlling men-and change their own lives. In this groundbreaking book, a counselor shows how to improve, survive, or leave an abusive relationship, with:

• The early warning signs
• Nine abusive personality types
• How to tell if an abuser can change, is changing, or ever will
• The role of drugs and alcohol
• What can be fixed, and what can't
• How to leave a relationship safely

The Battered Wife:  How Christians Confront Family Violence


Written by Nancy Nason Clark
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Book Description:

The authors sociological research reveals how churches and secular organization have responded--sometimes with assistance, sometimes not--to victims of violence in their midst and how their response could be more effective. By exploring the relationship between violence and Christians' response to it from various perspectives--those of victim, clergy, congregation--this book ultimately encourages a pastoral assistance that reduces violence in the world and helps victims find the inner strength to leave their gardens.

Refuge from Abuse: Healing and Hope for Abused Christian Women


Written by Nancy Nason Clark and Catherine Clark Kroeger
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Book Description:

Nancy-Nason Clark and Catherine Clark Kroeger know the pain of women who have been abused, especially the unique pain of Christian women who thought it couldn't happen to them. In this straightforward, practical book they supply the answers to the questions you face:
How do I know I need help? How much of my story should I tell? What help can I find in the community? What key steps will I need to take to get on with my life? How can I understand what help my abuser needs? How do I learn to trust God again?

"We believe the Bible’s message is clear: God speaks out against violence. Peace and safety are the biblical building blocks for family living. When there is no peace or safety, a relationship is not healthy. The journey toward hope, healing and wholeness will be long and hard. . . . [But] on this path, victims are transformed into survivors. We invite you to begin the journey."

When Dad Hurts Mom: Helping Your Children Heal the Wounds of Witnessing Abuse
Written by Lundy Bancroft
Book Description:
Can my partner abuse me and still be a good parent? Should I stay with my partner for my children's sake? How should I talk to my children about the abuse and help them heal? Am I a bad mother?

Mothers in physically or emotionally abusive relationships ask themselves these questions every day. Here, a counselor reveals how abusers interact with and manipulate children-and how mothers can help their children recover from the trauma of witnessing abuse.

This book, the first ever of its kind, shows mothers how to:

- Protect children and help them heal emotionally
- Provide love, support, and positive role models, even in the midst of abuse
- Increase their chances of winning custody
- Help their kids feel good about themselves

Angry Men and the Women Who Love Them: Breaking the Cycle of Physical and Emotional Abuse

Written By:  Paul Hegstrom

Book Description:
Domestic abuse knows no boundaries. Despite a dramatic increase in public awareness, it defiantly rears its ugly head, both physically and emotionally, in the homes of the rich as well as the poor, newlyweds as well as long-married couples, Christians as well as non-Christians.

Paul Hegstrom should know. From the earliest years of his marriage, he handled his problems and frustrations the only way he knew how: with fists and fury. Talking about the problem only intensified his rage. Going into the Christian ministry didn't help either, the guilt merely magnified his despair. Facing a charge of attempted murder and a prison term, Hegstrom got the wake-up call he needed. With professional help and an intense struggle with spiritual issues, he began the lengthy process of healing and recovery.

Through a fascinating, yet thorough examination of the psychological components of various types of abuse, along with true examples from his own life and others, Hegstrom points the way back to wholeness and freedom. An invaluable aid for the man who batters, the woman who feels trapped, and the pastor, counselor, or friend who desperately want to help them both, Angry Men and the Women Who Love Them offers straight answers for those willing to overcome the cycle of violence.



Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder


Written By: Billy Eddy and Randi Kreger

Book Description: Protect Yourself from Manipulation, False Accusations, and Abuse
Divorce is difficult under the best of circumstances. When your spouse has borderline personality disorder (BPD), narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), or is manipulative, divorcing can be especially complicated. While people with these tendencies may initially appear convincing and even charming to lawyers and judges, you know better-many of these "persuasive blamers" leverage false accusations, attempt to manipulate others, launch verbal and physical attacks, and do everything they can to get their way.

Splitting is your legal and psychological guide to safely navigating a high-conflict divorce from an unpredictable spouse.