Thursday, March 29, 2007

Segment from 20/20 on Domestic Abuse

3 comments Posted by Hannah at 9:24 PM

I saw this on TV, and finally someone posted it on youtube.

This man shows clearly what emotional and verbal abuse is about. He also decides to use physical abuse as well.

What's telling about this case is that even tho there is a video tape over an hour long - husband made his child tape it for 'training purposes' to show the family WHY she deserves this......its a misdeanor! In court could be sent to jail for max. a year, but out without 9 months. The fact that her boss paid attention, and kept a calendar as to when she was hurt, the video tape, and 2 out of 3 children stepped up in court to testify against him.....and also other things I'm sure he was sentenced to 30 years. They asked him to plea out so the children didn't have to take the stand, and he refused to do that. He got the longest sentence on record without killing someone for domestic abuse. Most never see jailtime of substance at all because it is very hard to convict!

I posted this on a panel of abused women and men. They come from all walks of life, and from all over the world. They are both people of our faith, others faiths, or no faith following at all. There comments are something I wish to share because people need to know WHY I scream so loudly on this issue! WHY the church should listen, and not push it away!

My heart broke for that poor woman! And her children, who were also being abused by that maniac! I never stop asking myself how anyone could be so evil and I don't believe I'll ever have an answer to that question.

THAT was hard to watch....what a horrible heart goes out to that woman.....SOOOOO interesting to see how it evolved....first, he was overbearing, like her dad, then he was controlling, did not want people around, weirdly jealous.....sound familiar to anynone? Then, he became progressively more and more controlling, until it finally became physical....and the saddest part....he would have killed her, I am sure...if she had stayed. Those poor children, I hope her sons will learn, somehow, to truly love a woman, and the daughter will one day be able to believe what she was seeing....

Even worse, the judge said it was an "unusual situtation",.....for those of you that were or are physically abused, I bet it seems pretty run of the mill.....

Dear God, please help these women get away from these men, and please allow the children that grow up watching this to somehow not repeat history....

My friend was murdered by her stbx husband, whom she had left, gotten a PPO against, and was divorcing. He came to the apartment where she was staying with her son from a previous marriage and her little boy from their marriage. Her older child let him in the house and he went to her bedroom, where her little one lay next to her in bed, and killed her with an ax as she lay sleeping next to her little boy. She was a brilliant, beautiful woman- ivy league educated, quick-witted and insightful, a Sunday school teacher, a woman who had had one of those 5-star careers and quit to teach in an inner city school system. She had a smile that lit up a room, and the warmest, funniest, most open manner about her. She had had two VA/EA marriages and the last one ended in her death. And I never knew. She didn't know I was in a EA/VA relationship at the same time that she was.

I truly believe that VA & EA are meant to destroy as much as violence is, but the perpetrators hold themselves in check only because they fear the consequences of being caught.

Tear the curtains back. Exposure is the only way. Shows like this are so important.

When they showed the film of when she said she "I think I can care about what my children do." And the way he took the word "think" and twisted it into something it wasn't was SO very familar to me. My husband has been doing this to me for so long...and the sick part? HE accuses me of parsing my words, changing my stories, lying and manipulating. It is EVERYTHING he does.

It's no wonder women don't go to the police. Look how hard it is to prove verbal/emotional abuse! Even physical abuse! Bumps and bruises aren't enough!

This reaches decent people anywhere in the world on a visceral level. It instills silent, healthy anger that prompts action sooner or later, in some form. I don't think it's possible to legislate penalties for verbal and emotional abuse, but it is possible to legislate funding for education, awareness, police response if physical violence is threatened and for couneling and the treatment of victims. Awareness, fostered by media exposure such as this, is obviously crucial to bring the issue of VA,EA,PA into the sphere of political action.

The fact that the abusive "star" of this television segment was given a sentence that exceeds some murder sentences is telling. Decent people don't like this sht.

One lady mentioned that her family wanted her to force the issue in court when the divorce started, and her lawyers advised against it. Told her to go for the no fault divorce, because the chances are next to nothing she would get justice.

Most of the attys I spoke with advised me to do as you are planning. Just get the divorce. The chances of him "paying for the abuse," at least through the legal system, are next to none. It's not worth wasting what it would cost in legal fees.

In a perverse way, this woman is lucky because 1. the abuse was obvious and overtly disgusting (and you didn't have to know the context to recognize it) and 2. as humiliating as he meant the recording to be, it's documented.

What do you bet the guy still gets liberal visitation with his children?

One thing I am disappointed in -- I wish they had not focused so much on the physical abuse. I know that is what makes people the most emotional but the most DAMAGING abuse was the 45 minutes of "you THINK you are interested in your children..." and then "you THINK you love your children..." that precede the beating. THAT is something that she could have done nothing about in court!

That is also the part that most feel isn't that big of a deal either. Systematic control is normally how it starts - and grows worse as the years pass.

I would like to see others pay the same or a similar penalty. The impact of what these abusive people do goes way beyond the primary target.

What really hit home for me was the word twisting part.
You *think* you care about what your kids do?
You *think* you love your kids.

Is so much easier to see live and in person than read articles that try to describe it,
when you see the twist, hear the's all too familiar.

With my son's dad...he tried to strangle me after a soccer game when my son was about 7 years old...right in front of my son. I tried to get the TRO for myself AND my son. They said they can't for my son because he was not violent with my son! Again...ANGER runs through every part of me because of the lack of common sense on part of the court...the law...whatever. So? What? My son has to get beaten to a pulp before I can do anythign about it! Needless to say, I wasn't happy about it.

Abuse is NOT about physical violence. It's all about CONTROL.

I can't say that enough.

The physical abuse is awful...just awful. The verbal/emotional is bad enough....but I know how it felt when my husband would yell, scream, talk over me, never let me say more than maybe a half a word without interrupting, call me stupid over and over...and tell me I'm an idiot...but when he would come toward me and get in my face...that was adding to made me more afraid (mind you he's never HIT me ON PURPOSE), and when he'd grab me...and put me on the floor or where ever...while screaming and yelling over my crying and begging him to please stop to listen to me...pinning me down...then proceding to get in my face and YELL at me...THAT scared me...BUT...he never hit me!! NEVER hit me. He would chase me around the house sometimes...and I actually had to HIDE in the closet back in the little corner tucked behind the walk in closet...after going through all that, I can't imagine the horrid feeling of not only being verbally/emotionally abused...but the getting slammed in the face...getting beat up? All of that would be just too much. That may have been just all it took to drive me over the edge...

The poor woman said it exactly right in the beginning, she was saying how she was just trying trying trying so hard to please her husband, make him love her, be deserving of love, and be the perfect wife/mother. But nothing she could do would please that jerk off. So many of us try that with our EA's.. oh man..

Saturday, March 24, 2007

German Judge Cites Quran as an excuse for Domestic Violence!

0 comments Posted by Hannah at 11:59 PM

New York Times Article Link

FRANKFURT, March 22 — A German judge has stirred a storm of protest by citing the Koran in turning down a German Muslim woman’s request for a speedy divorce on the ground that her husband beat her.

In a ruling that underlines the tension between Muslim customs and European laws, the judge, Christa Datz-Winter, noted that the couple came from a Moroccan cultural milieu, in which it is common for husbands to beat their wives. The Koran, she wrote in her decision, sanctions such physical abuse.

The court in Frankfurt abruptly removed Judge Datz-Winter from the case on Wednesday, saying it could not justify her reasoning. The woman’s lawyer, Barbara Becker-Rojczyk, said she decided to publicize the ruling, which was issued in January, after the court refused her request for a new judge.

“It was terrible for my client,” Ms. Becker-Rojczyk said. “This man beat her seriously from the beginning of their marriage. After they separated, he called her and threatened to kill her.”

Muslim leaders agreed that Muslims living here must be judged by the German legal code. But they were just as offended by what they characterized as the judge’s misinterpretation of a much-debated passage in the Koran.

The 26-year-old woman in this case was born in Germany to a Moroccan family and married in Morocco in 2001, according to her lawyer, Ms. Becker-Rojczyk. The couple settled in the Frankfurt area and had two children.

In May 2006, the police were summoned after a particularly violent incident. At that time, Judge Datz-Winter ordered the husband to move out and stay at least 55 yards away from the couple’s home. In the months that followed, her lawyer said, the man threatened to kill his wife.

Terrified, the woman filed for divorce in October and requested that it be granted without the usual year of separation because her husband’s threats and beatings constituted an “unreasonable hardship.”

“We worried that he might think he had the right to kill her because she is still his wife,” Ms. Becker-Rojczyk said.

A lawyer for the husband, Gisela Hammes, did not reply to an e-mail message and a telephone message left at her office in Mainz.

In January, the judge turned down the wife’s request for a speedy divorce, saying her husband’s behavior did not constitute unreasonable hardship because they are both Moroccan. “In this cultural background,” she wrote, “it is not unusual that the husband uses physical punishment against the wife.”

Ms. Becker-Rojczyk filed a request to remove the judge from the case, contending that she had not been neutral.

In a statement defending her ruling, Judge Datz-Winter noted that she had ordered the man to move out and put a restraining order on him. But she also cited the verse in the Koran that speaks of a husband’s prerogatives in disciplining his wife. And she suggested that the wife’s Western lifestyle would give her husband grounds to claim his honor had been compromised.

The woman, her lawyer said, does not wear a headscarf. She has been a German citizen for eight years.

Judge Datz-Winter herself narrowly avoided injury 10 years ago in a case involving a man and woman whose relationship had come apart. When the man shot up her courtroom, the judge escaped by diving under her desk.

German papers have suggested that that ordeal may have affected her judgment in this case, which the spokesman denied.

A new judge will be assigned, but Ms. Becker-Rojczyk said her client would probably wait until May for her divorce because the paperwork would take until then anyway.

For some, the greatest damage done by this episode is to other Muslim women suffering from domestic abuse. Many are already afraid of going to court against their spouses. There have been a string of so-called honor killings here, in which Turkish Muslim men have murdered women.

“For Muslim men, this is like putting oil on a fire, that a German judge thinks it is O.K. for them to hit their wives,” said Michaela Sulaika Kaiser, the head of a group that counsels Muslim women.

These are just sections of the article. This is a crime of the WORSE kind! How could anyone justified this! OUCH!

This blogger had a good article in response!


LOL Its titled, "Leave Quran out of this please!" NO KIDDING!

Here is another source speaking about this! I personally am SHOCKED at the reasoning behind this! Even if what this judge claims is true (which i personally don't believe) that would make it right under German Law??

German Judge Removed After Saying Abuse Allowed in Muslim Marriage

Friday, March 23, 2007

"Jesus Love Me"

0 comments Posted by Hannah at 10:44 PM

Monday, March 19, 2007

The edicts of Elyashiv, By Yair Sheleg

0 comments Posted by Hannah at 7:39 PM


T., a Haredi woman, divorced her husband several years ago. The husband conditioned the granting of a get (religious divorce) on allowing all other issues that had been discussed at the outset in rabbinical court to continue to be discussed there. After a while, the woman submitted an appeal regarding the children's education to the Family Court (her representative claimed this was a subject that was not discussed in the rabbinical court previously, and therefore, did not constitute a violation of the agreement). The injured husband turned to the Tel Aviv Rabbinical Court, which ruled that the appeal to the secular court aroused doubts about the get's validity.

This statement placed the woman in a terrible situation: She has married another man since then, and they even have a child. If the get is canceled, she will be considered in terms of religious law, still married to her former husband, and her new child will be considered a mamzer (a child born to someone other than the woman's husband; the child cannot marry another Jew). The woman, therefore, hastened to appeal to the Supreme Rabbinical Court, but it has been delayed for about a year already. The delay also puts the woman in an impossible situation: If it is eventually decided that the get is invalid, she is already forbidden to have conjugal relations with her present husband.

According to the woman's rabbinical pleader, the dayan (rabbinical court judge) who is delaying the decision is Rabbi Hagai Izirer. Izirer, and his colleague Rabbi Avraham Sherman, are appointees of Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, the major arbiter of the Haredi world. Since being appointed to the Great Rabbinical Court, they have been considered representatives who maintain a stringent approach that aims to avoid forcing recalcitrant husbands to grant a get as much as possible. Izirer denies that he has delayed the handling of the case, claiming that all sides first agreed to discuss the education of the common child and only afterward the get's status. He also rejects claims regarding his fundamentally strict approach, but an objective person in the rabbinical court system confirms that both he and Sherman represent that line of thinking, "although they have never canceled a get."


If that is the case, the two reflect the approach of the man who sent them, Elyashiv. In recent years, Elyashiv's rulings have indicated an extreme stance, which is mainly characterized by a losing battle against the "new Haredim" who have become caught up by "the spirit of modernity" such as cell phones, the Internet and employment.

For example, Elyashiv recently published a ruling that only those who use "kosher" cell phones (those without access to the Internet) can register their children for Haredi schools. Prior to the upcoming shemita year (when Jews in Israel are not allowed to cultivate the land), he will probably renew his ruling against the heter mekhira (allowing farmers to cultivate their land during the year). His harshest edicts are against women: It is not enough that they have to simultaneously raise their children and support their family, but recently he forbade them from receiving an academic degree, thereby arousing waves of protest even among Haredim who usually honor the community's great Torah scholars. His associates treat women in need of a get in the same spirit.

In an era when the entire world of ethics has surrendered to market forces, there is something refreshing about insisting on enforcing ethical criteria. Therefore, we actually should respect the ruling regarding "kosher" cell phones. But when it comes to undermining human dignity, or attempting to force extremist norms on all of society, as in respect to shemita, we must not give in. Elyashiv's power in the Haredi community must be confronted with an alternative power: For example, he recently succeeded in having Izirer continue as the rabbinical court representative on the Dayanim Selection Committee, pushing aside the moderate Shlomo Daichovsky.

But if the Haredi parties are willing to surrender to Elyashiv (Rabbi Ovadia Yosef first supported Daichovsky, but eventually gave in), others involved in the committee (the Justice Ministry, the non-Haredi representatives of the Knesset and government, and the Israel Bar Association) must oppose him. The Education Ministry can, and must, insist on an academic degree for female Haredi teachers, and the Chief Rabbinate and other elements in the religious community must firmly oppose his strict position on shemita. This will also provide strength and support for those elements in the Haredi community who are not interested in surrendering to the extremist approach.

Friday, March 16, 2007

Jesus is Savior site - Divorce an Abusive Spouse?

20 comments Posted by Hannah at 7:54 AM

Link to Article

First off I'm going to assume this author's heart is in the right place, but I clearly see some red flags in his understanding of abuse!

I wrote before about one of his articles, and he changed this one from what he was saying in past. He toned down the feminist rant a bit, but clearly still doesn't truly get it! His lack of knowledge of what abuse is, and the dynamics, mindsets is very clear!

Interestingly, and sadly, all we see on the internet and in society today is talk about domestic violence; but NEVER do we hear anything about statistics on wives who refuse to obey their husbands. It is evil. It is just as sinful for a wife to frustrate her husband through insubordination and disobedience as it is for a man to commit domestic violence. I am not lessening the sin of domestic violence, I am emphasizing the sin of wives who rebel against their husbands by not being obedient. I realize this is ancient mentality to feminists today; but it is 100% Biblical doctrine. A wife is expected by God to obey her husband. Feminists are eagerly willing to crucify abusive husbands; BUT they won't even address the issue of wives who disobey, mistreat, and frustrate their husbands. It takes two to tango.

Hmmmmm. Most would think he is claiming that domestic violence happens because the wife isn't obeying her husband. That is my first red flag. First off as most know by now I don't believe that DV just happens to women - it happens to men as well! To many people tend to think that someone has to push other's buttons in order to get an explosion with people that have issues with being abusive.

What the author doesn't seem to understand is a spouse can come home to a perfect house, and his slippers, newspaper and clicker to the TV waiting for him with perfectly groomed and silent children - and he will still blow his top! Abuse is not about disobedience of the other spouse! Abuse is the issue of the one abusing, and their root cause is inside of them! If people are stating that their abuse is due to NOT obeying your husband, or not loving your wife enough.......they clearly missed the boat! They also are doing an awful injustice to both parties!

The author missed the part about how the husband’s are to love their wives unconditionally. EVEN if she doesn’t ‘obey’ him! Why talk about the EVIL's of not obeying your husband, and NOT be submissive enough when the article title speaks of divorcing due to abuse?? He isn't off to a good start that is for sure! The first thing most people do is remind everyone involved of God's love and redemptive grace offered to everyone! NOT ONCE was this mentioned in the article!

Please understand that I believe a wife who is being physically abused should leave if she feels threatened; but not divorce. Such a wife needs to sincerely ask herself "why" her husband is being abusive--there's ALWAYS a reason. Some husbands are abusive; but 90% of all divorces are needlessly caused by a sinfully proud wife who causes grief for her husband, and he gets mad. A wife who refuses to be submissive causes the marriage to become a two-headed monster. Someone's got to be in charge, or there will be continual conflict. Ideally, a husband and wife should work together on everything; however, in those situations where there is a conflict, the wife is commanded by God to submit to her husband.

What this author is asking the wife is to read the man's mind as to WHY they are abusive! Men and Women that are abusive have issues deep down inside, and the reasons they are abusive doesn't justify anything! Common sense would tell most people that others have asked themselves NUMBEROUS times WHY their spouse is abusive! I mean COME ON - who WOULDN'T! Abuse is not about a sinfully proud wife who causes her husband to get mad! Most of the time spouses are silent about the sins of their spouse, and they walk around on eggshells TRYING to do anything possible not to set them off! This author is almost insinuating that women do this either on purpose (causing someone to be abusive), pushing their buttons to MAKE them do it, or they are not doing their biblical duty so their spouse is abusive towards them. I find it strange that this author doesn't step near the fact that the one that is abusive is clearly broken.

1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honor unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Women and Men are heirs together, and it is clear in this passage that the husband must treat the wife with honor otherwise his prayers will be hindered. I would think the author would be more worried about that than the feminist’s out there! It doesn’t matter WHAT he thinks they are doing to this poor man - the man is responsible for his actions – and provoking him to anger isn’t a loophole out of it!

Ephesians 5:22 commands a wife to obey her husband as unto Jesus Christ, "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." How many wives today obey this Biblical command? It would be like looking for a needle in a haystack to find such a woman today in America. No wonder Solomon said in Ecclesiastes 7:28, "One man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found." Solomon couldn't find one woman, out of all his wives and the women he had known, whom he could trust with all his heart. There were many feminists in Solomon's time, just as there are today. Listen to what Solomon had to say about the rebellious feminists of his own time ... "And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her." What a contrast from the virtuous wife of Proverb 31:28 ... "Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her." Which type of woman are you? What does your husband (or X-husband) have to say about you? God knows, and He does care, and you will have to give account for your laziness, carelessness, lies, deceitfulness, maliciousness, etc. You will give full account to God for all your words and actions.

Do you see the ignorance or naive mindset here? This author is clearly cutting down most women, and stating most women can't do their biblical end of the marriage right! What I notice is that he spends MORE time with "obeying' your husband, and being 'submissive' to him than he does addressing the abuse casted upon the wife! I'm sure he would tell men that get abused that they need to step up and be the MAN in the family - almost hinting that they have an issue with manhood. What a bunch of junk!

The man he speaks about in his article is to love his wife unconditionally, and the fact he abuses their spouse the author will admit that is sinful - but clearly blames another party for that action indirectly! Is that what scripture tells people? "WELL if you were that needle in the haystack - you wouldn't have this issue!" HUH?? What the author forgets to mention is that the man in his article will also be given the chance to give account for his actions, and if they truly feels that God will tell him, "I know your wife wasn't the best in the biblical department! I understand – you’ve been pasted the "GO" ahead button in my book! Sins excused over a rebellious women!" he has GOT to be kidding me! The man has responsibilities also - matter of fact MORE responsibilities than the woman..and when he clearly TROMPS on them its the wife's fault because he didn't do her end good enough? LOL Come on! God is NOT about blame shifting Mr. Author!

I'm not saying that someone has a right to abuse us; I am saying that we will put up with someone if we love them, and will work to find a better way to reconcile the situation then to take the easy way out through a divorce. To the feminist, divorce is no big deal (just as they think murderously aborting children is no big deal). As a Christian, I don't understand that mentality. I thought marriage was supposed to be about LOVE, between two people, forever. I'll tell you right now, I love my wife and wouldn't divorce her in a million years. She may one day divorce me; but it will be her doing and not mine. I love my wife, despite her faults and shortcomings. If Jesus was willing to suffer and endure the cross for my sins, then I should be willing to do the same for my own wife. Is this not what Ephesians 4:31-32 teaches? ... "Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."

I see the last piece of scripture, and I notice that he doesn't POINT that in the direction of the abusive spouse! He points it in the direction of the abused! This author does also tend to spend WAY too much time on what a feminist is! Unless you agree with what he is stating - you are the ugly word! I have read letter after letter of how the abused spouse LOVES the abusive one! That they bend over backwards to do things for them so they may feel loved and respected in return. That is a very common trait, and yet their author has by passed this and used blame instead. The man is also to give LOVE towards the women (or man if they are abused) also, and if you are abused doesn't mean you didn't LOVE them good enough!

He contradicts himself when he claims that FIRST women should run to safety if abused - but not divorce....then above states that loving them is putting up with it! "You will put up with someone if we love them" Since when does scripture state that people are to TOLERANT sin? Where in scripture does it state PUT UP WITH sin? The thing is that calling people out about their abusive ways - finding them someone to help them be accountable - standing in the light and stating the truth about the abusive behavior is what God asks of his people! You don't do the above with vindictiveness in your heart! You do this out of love for your spouse, and pray for his brokenness to be healed! The abused spouse also needs a different kind of help, and their brokenness to be healed as well! Abusive men will need counseling, and he will need encouragement of other Godly men to follow him along this path to help and support him! NOT tell him well your wife is complaining too much because we all know she is a feminist! The victimized parties need help as well - and YES that also includes the children within the union! The author tends to twist the spirit behind that scripture also! He needs to spend more time talking about the rebuking of these men, and the 'boundary' among other issues with the wife! They need to be separate until such time they are both healthy enough to be together! I'm sure the author would say ONLY a couple of weeks MAX! To me this author doesn't have much faith in the man's side the equation in all of this! That is so sad! I know there are many men out there that would be outraged at this article! Running from abusive spouse has NOTHING to do with feminism! LOL! We are talking about two separate issues here!

I hate to tell this author, but an abusive spouse would just LOVE this article! What an awesome tool to use against his spouse in his future campaigns! "SEE! I was right and YOU are just a FEMINIST!" I highly doubt that was the author's intent, but it is clear as a bell!

I receive quite a few letters from people--who demonize their spouse, seeking to alleviate their own guilt because they CHOSE to divorce. Here's another letter I recently received from an angry wife...

Hi I read your article on divorce and I see what the bible says, but my daughter will have nothing to do with me unless this person is gone out of my life he is not their father and she is 18 my son 14. Does god really intend for us to live and keep forgiving and putting our families through a hell with a person that calls me a cunt, whore, etc - breaks my things, forbids me to see certain people ,and he may even kill me one day. I was ready to up and leave to save myself and show my daughter that I did not choose her over this bastard but what now? how can you worship and praise the lord when you are dying inside from a person like this?

Denise *****

The fact that Denise calls her husband a "bastard" is evidence that she is not so perfect herself. Romans 3:23 states ... "There is NONE righteous, no not one." The truth is that people who seek divorce usually look for reasons to JUSTIFY their actions. It is frightening, but true, that people are able to justify anything if they really want to. This is why homosexuals, fornicators, witches, abortionists, feminists, and those who divorce are all trying to JUSTIFY their sinful deeds with the Bible. It is evil to twist the Bible in an attempt to condone sin (Romans 1:25).

The fact that this author never addressed the actions she mentioned shows that he clearly doesn't wish to speak about the sitution! He speaks about twisting scripture, and yet that is what he is doing! I don't agree with the name calling either, but the fact that he ignored the issues she wrote about - never offered a solution or compromise! Never acknowledged the abuse she mentioned in her letter - went off into some rant about people just looking to JUSTIFY their actions clearly shows this author hasn't got a clue! What about the daugther Mr. Author? What about her concerns?

I mean the fact he never addressed the issues she brought up and focused on the word 'bastard' and pretty much ignored the rest shows how he is condoning sin and twisting scripture as well! You want to admonish the use of the word - FINE! Do that, but you must also address her concerns! Stating, "she isn't perfect either" solves ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! LOL Doesn't even go near anything of substance either!

Either you love your husband or you don't. If you don't, then you need to get right with God yourself. If you do love him, then you'll stay with him and HONOR your wedding vows ... "'Til death do us part." We are living in a nation of liars. LOVE finds a way to make a relationship work, it doesn't look for EXCUSES to get out and move on. America is without a doubt the most SELFISH nation on earth. The chump change we give to the poor is nothing compared to what we spend on ourselves. Americans spend $50,000,000,000 a year on gambling alone, and even more than that on pornography. America has NO right to ask for God's blessing. We are a nation of baby murderers, liars, cheats, gossipers, and quitters! I'm not being unkind; but divorce is a quitters way out. If you want to get mad at me, go ahead; but the next man (or woman) you meet won't be perfect either.

What has all that got to do with anything??? Fine - he has opinions on the world, but again NEVER addresses the issue of the article! Just states that if you love your spouse enough you will stay. If you leave - WELL you know the label by now!

He is being VERY unkind to spouses that have endured abuse - gender doesn't matter! He spends so much time on 'unconditional' love, and his defination of it! To bring the issues into the light, enforcing the fact that people that abuse need help, victims need another type of help - and you wont' return until action starts IS LOVE! You are asking your spouse to STEP up, and face their demons that will ruin their life now and forever! What the heck is wrong with that?

He never speaks of the fact that God loves us all, and that God is a loving God that will help you with your burdens! He will guide you into the light, and he will help you with the suffering you may have to endure doing just that! There is NO HOPE that I felt in this article, and that is pure shameful!

They are sinfully divorcing their spouse, and have gained the emotional support of several neoevangelical deadbeat ministries; BUT, now they've found my article exposing the sin of divorce and are upset. They write me in an attempt to convince me why they're doing the right thing. Folks, divorce is never right. What if God quit on us? ... the same way so many people quit on their spouse? Hebrews 13:5 promises that God will never leave nor forsake us, "...for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." This is the standard for us to follow. I cannot understand how anyone could ever file for divorce from someone they love, no matter how abusive that person might be. I am NOT condoning abuse, I am simply saying that love will never fail if it is true love (1st Corinthians 13:8). All marriages have problems; but divorce is never an answer.

I have to admit this portion did make me giggle a bit! I'm sure a lot of people also wrote him stating he clearly missed the boat when it comes to abuse ALONE also! Notice he never mentioned that! Instead uses name-calling towards other ministries that aren't calling people FEMINIST - and shaming them into staying with an unrepentant spouse! I guess I could turn his words around, and mention he also never mentioned a DARN thing wrong with him either! He always goes there in this article, "Did you notice she never mentioned something negative about herself?" LOL Well Mr. Author where is your negative? I must have missed that part! You need to apply that yourself as well!

Loving their spouse to death isn't going to FIX the abusive nature of ANY spouse! Counseling, fellowship and reminding them of God's love - and constant support if they accept that will open doors for everyone! Shaming people isn't going to work!

I'm a hell-deserving sinner just like anyone else. I am just as guilty of messing up sometimes as anyone else. BUT, right is right and wrong is wrong, and we must never allow our own personal feelings to confuse the two. I did not write this article to deliberately hurt anyone's feelings, and I certainly have no right to tell you your business; BUT, I am taking a stand for God against the sin of divorce. The Bible tells us in Malachi 2:16 that God hates divorce, "For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away." In nearly all divorces, the husband and wife BOTH have their own side of the story as to who's to blame. Usually, they blame each other. God will weigh the matter on judgment day, and the truth will come out. The wife who accuses her husband of "abuse" will be held accountable for all the things she did to provoke her husband, and she will be judged accordingly. It's the same morons who call spanking a child "abuse" who are attacking and labeling husbands as being "abusive."

LOL We must never allow our own personal feelings to confuse things huh? I think the world knows a feminist labeler and hater when they read one! Someone is clearly stating his own personal feelings LOUD and CLEAR! LOL! God will also weight the matter on judgement day, and the husband who abused with be held accountable for his actions - provoking isn't an excuse Mr. Author! I mean COME ON! LOL Provoking is handed to husbands as an 'out 'clause? YOU WISH! Again he makes some sweeping generalizations, and NEVER gets down to the meat and potatoes of the issue of abuse! How sadly naive, and I feel sorry for him once he comes to judgment day and tries to tell GOD that PROVOKING is an excuse! WOW! is he in trouble! OH OH!! I'm sorry and SHE didn't OBEY and wasn't SUBMISSIVE enought! LOL Like that will FLY to excuse the abusive spouses actions, or the justification per this author!

The term "abuse" has been greatly twisted nowadays. Every God-hating feminist in the country is still trying to use the O.J. Simpson case to demonize men. Men who track their wife's time are now considered "abusive." Biblically, a husband has every right to tract his wife's time and whereabouts. God told Eve that Adam would RULE OVER her (Genesis 3:16). This does not justify abuse, it just means that the wife is to submit to her husband's control and authority. Feminists hate the very concept of obeying any man, and have consequently labeled such Biblically authoritative husbands as "abusive." Nothing could be further from the truth.

This man clearly misunderstands the biblical role of a husband! There is nothing wrong with asking about the where abouts, etc of a spouse - but he clearly doesn't understand what a step to far in this type of situation is clearly about. The bible doesn't tell the man he has a right to run his household with an iron fist! Yet I get the impression he is stating that men don't have to justify anything! We RULE OVER YOU women, and we will decide what 'loving you' means! There is a type of 'authoritative' husband that God would not condone Mr. Author!

It is wrong to divorce an abusive spouse (wife or husband). You may need to leave, and be apart for a while; but divorce is no answer. I am NOT condoning abuse of any kind; but the term "abuse" has been greatly misconstrued to include such ridiculous things as a husband wanting to know where his wife is going, and when she's coming back. I agree wholeheartedly with Mrs. John R. Rice (wife of the great evangelist Dr. John R. Rice), who said that 90% of all divorces is the wife's fault, because God created the wife to be a HELP MEET for her husband (Genesis 2:18). The wife's ministry IS her husband! Many woman pluck their marriages down to the ground (Proverb 14:1). A husband has a Biblical God-given RIGHT to RULE OVER his wife (Genesis 3:16). I find that in many cases when a wife leaves her husband, she involves all sorts of strangers in the marriage, and they are quick to give heathen advice (such as encouraging a divorce). Very few husbands will compromise with a wife who tries to force him to do things her way.

WOW! According to God the husband has more duties/roles within the marriage, and yet this author and Mr. Rice claim 90% of the issues with marriages fall on the wife’s. Okay then. I guess the men in this world are doing everything right huh? Abusive husbands FORCE their wife’s into a lot of things, and compromise over anything ISN'T and has NEVER been part of the relationship Sir! You are placing too much empathizes on RULEING OVER THE WIFE - than you are on the actual ROLES of the husband within the marriage! The husband has a ministry also doesn't he? Being a bully and reminding her of HER duties is not the husband's job! That SIR is between her and GOD!

The bible speaks of fellowship does it not? Just because they believe he is wrong in his actions doesn't mean they ENCOURAGE divorce! My goodness!

So instead of the wife calling her husband, and giving him a chance to work things out, she instead just files for divorce. This is wickedness. Most women who file for divorce don't give their husband an honest chance to make things right. It's always some lame excuse like, "He's had plenty of chances." That is sinful pride! What if God said that about you? You'd be in Hell. You CANNOT show me even one Scripture in the Word of God that gives anyone permission to divorce because of abuse. And may I say, the Bible does not permit divorce for adultery either. So let us be forgiving, and humble ourselves before God, and be willing to follow in Christ's footsteps ... "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows ... But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed" (Isaiah 53:3-5).

WOW now this gentleman is saying that most women don't know what they are doing! I'm sorry but reading this article I don't feel any humble nature, forgiveness, empathy or concern towards parties within abusive relationships. I see shaming them into fixing it unless you want 'labels' he is more than willing to hand them! SHAME ON YOU!!

When people spend too much time on casting stones you truly need to take a second look at things! "Obey", "Submit", "Feminism" are used WAY too much in this article! Women are to do these actions out of duty to the Lord, and not be constantly reminded and forced upon them - that is called coercion and is NOT of GOD! The fact this man tells these women,” You could be provoking HIM!" as an excuse is downright evil!

People are going to suffer when they bring abuse into the light of truth - whether they divorce or NOT from judgments such as this! It seems this author thinks most abuse is imaginary or something in most cases! When he speaks about the accountability of the spouse’s time, etc - doesn't go into examples of the extreme measures people deal with! Its one element of the power and control they crave within the relationship. That alone doesn't make things abusive - its one portion! I mean DAHHHHHHH! Come ON!

Where is the part that God will admonish men for their wicked behavior towards their wives? Where is the part that men and women are coheirs in grace, and that both parties are suppose to deal with each other with love and respect? Where is the part if they DON’T they prayers will be rendered? Where is the part that women need to find a support system to help them with this time in their life, and help them make difficult decisions? Where is the part that Godly men need to come along side of this abusive man to help him see what God expects of him as a husband? Where is the reminder of God’s love for all of us? LOL even Feminist’s! (Sorry I had to throw that in)

Do you know what I find the strangest? He writes an article geared towards the abusive spouse. Its also very simplistic in nature, and clearly shows his ignorance of the mindset…….but he doesn’t spend near as much time YELLING at them! LOL!


Monday, March 12, 2007

Toni Childs - I've got to go now!

2 comments Posted by Hannah at 1:09 PM

This man i married is buried deep
And the more i try to wake him, the more he sleeps
I used to think i knew this man
The tenderness, not the back of his hand

It's been two weeks since he last had a drink
But the time bombs ticking, i can never sleep
It would be easier if he did
Why do you stay here, stay with him?

Why do you do it?
Why do you treat us bad?
When you've got two kids that love you
And a wife that's missing you bad
I've got to go now
I've got to say goodbye
Don't try to stop us now
And please don't you cry
Can't you see. we've all been through it
It's all been said before
With all these fears,
For how many years can i keep coming
Back for more
No more

Must be addicted to all this pain
Cause i keep coming back for the shame
Dear god give me the strength to leave
I've got to keep going, keep going this time

Don't try to stop us now
Don't pull that stuff on me
I've got the kids all packed up
Harry's in the back with his pick up truck
Jenny's fallen asleep again
I've got to keep driving till i reach the end

I can't come back here anymore
And i know it
And i know it
I can't come back here anymore
And i know it
And i know it

Saturday, March 10, 2007

Blog of the Day Winner

0 comments Posted by Hannah at 10:33 PM

Blog Of The Day Awards Winner

I guess this site won on March 9, 2007


Tuesday, March 06, 2007

How To Spot Religious Abuse

12 comments Posted by Hannah at 10:52 AM

How to Spot Religious Abuse by Rafael Martinez, Director, Spiritwatch Ministries


(This article below really spoke to me! I can see how people that are abused within the family are never heard in such communities.  Keep in mind another term for Religious abuse is SPIRITUAL Abuse)

As we have consistently asserted, there are indeed many fine, balanced and healthy Christian churches and associations where wholesome and uplifting spirituality serves as the foundation for their activity, ministry, and contribution to society as a whole, seeking to serve its needs for the sake of the Christian Gospel, and for the love of all men. Sadly, however, there have been some which have lost their balance and focus, becoming spiritually toxic places where many people and many communities were adversely and irreparably turned away from Christianity itself. Who would want to trust in a faith where God's love was seemingly quite conditional, where hypocrisy and judgmentalism were quite visible, and where salvation came at a price of divided families, alienated neighbors, and self-righteous parishioners?

This has become a serious thorn in the sides of the Christian church which no serious believer can ignore any longer, especially when such sinful excess has only served to alienate men from God. Yet the problem is made worse tenfold when the congregants of an abusive church seem, at first and even several glances, to be upright, sincere and responsible people to the casual observer who knows nothing of their group dynamics of control and abuse. How can you tell whether a church or other group is religiously abusive? Several subtle yet unmistakable warning signs can help you identify places of spiritual worship, vocation and social activity that are likely to be of questionable integrity. We now will endeavor to share these with you, yet a very careful qualification must be made here before we begin:

It is essential to keep in mind one major principle when seeking to define the spiritual state of any given church: the occasional faults and weaknesses of spiritually sound, even spiritually struggling Christians in various situations can be easily mistaken for these danger signs. It is vitally important, therefore, to realize that seeing the failures of Christians in a given church you may be wondering about does NOT, repeat, NOT necessarily mean that their fellowship is unsound and religiously abusive. Mature judgement and careful examination, along with counsel received from other mature Christians from outside the given church. such as the pastors and pastoral staff of another church, must be deliberately pursued first before arriving at a conclusion. We at the TVBSA are not interested in initiating witch hunts nor scandalizing finger pointing at any church or church leader, and disavow any attempt to do so. However, we are attempting to share with you some sound guidelines that will help you arrive at informed, rational and fair choices and decisions regarding any group you may find that seem questionable.

Bearing in mind the observations we have made concerning the "seven bars" of spiritual prisons, those also are observable characteristics of domination, manipulation and intimidation that former members have recognized "from the inside." These guidelines which will enable you to spot religious abuse on the basis of these five warning signs which are - relatively speaking - the most easiest to identify by outsiders. Ron Enroth's excellent book Churches That Abuse (Zondervan) has provided great insights into these warning signs, from which we will now share.

The Five Warning Signs Of Religious Abuse

1) Unchecked Authoritarian Leadership

The first danger sign of a possibly unsound church, Enroth explains, can be seen through a high-handed exhibition of its leadership's authority, which often appears unnervingly legitimate. "Spiritual abuse can take place in the context of doctrinally sound, Bible preaching, fundamental, conservative Christianity. All that is needed for abuse is a pastor accountable to no one and therefore beyond confrontation. .. Authoritarian leaders are ecclesiastical loners. That is, they do not function well or willingly in the context of systematic checks or balances. They are fiercely independent and refuse to be part of a structure of accountability. To put it crudely, they operate a one-man (or one-woman) spiritual show. And God help the person who gets in the way or makes waves."

He continues: "Yes, sometimes they will point to a board of elders or its equivalent, but more likely than not, this turns out to be a faithful inner circle of clones that implicitly accepts all that the leader sets forth. .. Abusive pastors often come from troubled backgrounds and are very insecure persons despite the 'take charge' image they may project. They are power hungry people who crave visibility. Leaders who inflict spiritual violence often hide behind the smoke screen of authority to gain power." (pp. 203, 217, 219 of Churches That Abuse). It is important to understand that religiously abusive church leadership is most visible when it demands public and private attention to be given to the authority and control over the flock by the pastor. Often, in aberrant churches, this is not an easy thing to discern, and yet, it is frequently it is one of the danger signs that are too easily overlooked. Such leaders will seem too quick to chastise members, often in harsh forums of public rebuke.

2) Imbalanced Congregational Life

Secondly, the congregation's social characteristics provide danger signals as well. Enroth points out that "membership of authoritarian churches is frequently comprised of young, spiritually immature Christians. This kind of church is successful because it is meeting basic human needs - the need to belong, the need to be affirmed, to be accepted and to be part of a family. It is not unusual for the leaders to assume the role of surrogate parents, especially for those young adults who come from dysfunctional family backgrounds" (p. 216). It is just this sort of yearning need and sincere zeal that the aberrant church pastor uses to exploit his flock through manipulative control. Mr. Enroth explains that abusive church leaders "foster an unhealthy form of dependency, spiritually and otherwise, by focusing on themes of submission and obedience to those in authority. They create the impression that people just aren't going to find their way through life's maze without a lot of firm directives from those at the top" (p. 217).

These firm directives are fleshed out in a demanding lifestyle rigidity that is actually a form of controlling and abusive legalism. A black and white view of the world is the mentality that is created in the minds of the abusive church's congregation. Do's and don'ts found in church-supplied codes of conduct are taken so seriously that they have a stifling effect upon the spiritual liberty that Christians should enjoy and impose a dangerously controlling conformity upon the congregation. A major component of such control is the usage of unspoken expectations: moral directives that everyone in the group knows are "the law", the way "things are", but which are never explicitly spelled out until one haplessly breaks one of them. It is then that punishment or sanctions are imposed.

3) Conscious Threats Of Discipline And Disfellowshipping

"Another sign of impending trouble in a church is an obsession with discipline and excommunication. Beware of churches that warn of certain doom if you leave their 'covering,' or if you 'break covenant.' Once banished from the group, little compassion is shown the wayward one." Again and again, it has been observed that former members of aberrant churches, when contemplating leaving the group, were issued dire warnings that they were backsliding, compromising and facing judgment from God. Church members who are seen as stepping out of line will find themselves being shunned or criticized by the so-called "true believers" in public, and will usually face much harsher treatment in the larger abusive church congregation. Demeaning public rebuke, even ridicule from the pulpit is one means of religious abuse disguised as "discipline."

But more often such power ploys are extended across the congregation or congregations in question through even subtler and indirect ways. As a means of preemptive control, the public teachings and private social life are regularly used to deliver indirect, yet unmistakable hints to potential "troublemakers" and the membership at large that one could never gain the same depth of spiritual truth anywhere else. Only among the group could true insights into life be found, the real interpretation of the Bible be discovered, the closest and deepest fellowship be experienced. With such carrots dangled on such long sticks for all to see, the reinforcement of the group's exclusivism is accomplished, making the fear of exclusion from such a group so close to the "ultimate truth" an ultimate horror to be avoided at all costs.

4) Deliberate Disruption Of Personal Relationships

A fourth sign of aberrance in a church is when the church encourages complete isolation or strong distancing of it's membership from family and friends not involved in the group. Enroth observes that even family relationships within the group become severely disrupted and strained, since the demands for attention to be given to the "spiritual family" become all important. Parental and marital bonds may be strained or shattered over the need for individual family members to more fully identified with the church group, and non-member relations outside of the group are often stunned at how cold and distant their once loving family members became when they "got religious." The abusive church's "spiritual family" then appear to become the recipients of the warm family ties and affections that group members have withdrawn from their own family.

This is one of the most heartbreaking and shattering consequences of religious abuse dispensed by aberrant churches. We know of many, many people who have suffered unspeakably agonizing losses of their marriages, children and parents at the behest of abusive group leaders who deemed their members' relationships with them far too spiritually polluting, smothering and destructive. A marriage of twenty years was abruptly ended by a divorce initiated by the pressures placed upon the couple by an abusive church through its leadership, simply because the husband left the Polk County "church" where both he and his wife were members. Such unbelievable occurrences are all too frequent and too real to ignore.

5) Withdrawal And Isolation From The "Outside"

Enroth goes on to say that another sign of abusive behavior in a church is it's tendency towards isolation from other churches. There is a conscious effort to limit input and contact with thoughts and ideas from outside the church's own circle. This is what is known as "information control" and is a crucial element of what is known as mind control. "Beware of the church, " he writes, "where outside speakers are consistently denied access to the pulpit, and where other Christian churches are regularly denounced, belittled or ridiculed." News events, local happenings, and even personal events are reinterpreted by the church leadership in such a way so as to lead the congregation to see the world as they wish it to be perceived. Bible verses are misquoted as divine sanction for these actions, citing the need to be separate from the doomed and satanic world order outside of the group's domain.

This contributes to the construction of a completely sealed society of people who effectively shut out the world from among them, even though they may continue to move within it. Newspapers, television programming, and even ordinary social interaction with other members of the larger culture become strongly discouraged. The issue goes way beyond a pious avoidance of tempting imagery and thought but actually is a means to stifle and control the thoughts, consciences and spiritual autonomy of the individual member. This marks the final terrifying descent of a group of zealous Christians under the leadership of manipulative leaders into a horrific deception and legalistic bondage, from which it is then almost virtually indistinguishable from outright cultism. Such groups do exist here, in the "Bible belt" and have wrought untold amounts of spiritual havoc in too many lives.

Spiritual abuse is one of the dark secrets of the Tennessee Valley, a serious problem that for too long has remained overlooked, ignored, and neglected by much of the Body of Christ. Abuse in the name of the one true God who is the embodiment of love and grace is certainly one of the great tragedies of our time that have both broken His loving heart and aroused His wrath upon the false shepherds who have savaged his flock. The Gospel of Jesus Christ can never be served or proclaimed where fear, coercion, and outright spiritual trauma is inflicted. Only the cause of religious tyranny and megalomania is advanced. It is our prayerful hope that this brief overview can help you avoid such pitfalls.

Additional Resources:

Keep mind Religious Abuse can also be termed as Spiritual Abuse

Defining Spiritual Abuse (Index)
Battered Sheep
Spiritual Abuse Recovery Resources

Friday, March 02, 2007

Adult - Children Quiz

6 comments Posted by Hannah at 8:48 AM


I have found this quiz - or rather was told about it - and found it very interesting!!

The title has to do with alcoholism, but to be perfectly don't need to be an that type of situation for this to open some eyes!

I'm going to quote something below, and keep in mind BOOZE doesn't always have to be the main factor! Matter of fact I grew up in a home that drugs, booze, or any other substance abuse wasn't a factor! I could relate to some of the questions!

Over the years, those who have studied the "adult child" phenomenon have compiled a list of common characteristics which many people who grew up in dysfunctional homes seem to share. The following characteristics were developed by Dr. Janet G. Woititz.

You may recognize some of them.

Adult Children (of alcoholics:)

...guess at what normal is.

...have difficulty in following a project through from beginning to end.

...lie when it would be just as easy to tell the truth.

...judge themselves without mercy.

...have difficulty having fun.

...take themselves very seriously.

...have difficulty with intimate relationships.

...overreact to changes over which they have no control.

...constantly seek approval and affirmation.

...feel that they are different from other people.

...are either super responsible or super irresponsible.

...are extremely loyal, even in the face of evidence that loyalty is undeserved.

...tend to lock themselves into a course of action without giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences. This impulsivity leads to confusion, self loathing, and loss of control of their environment. As a result, they spend tremendous amounts of time cleaning up the mess.

These characteristics are, of course, general in nature and do not apply to everyone. Some may apply and others not. And there are still other characteristics which are not on this list. But if any of these sound all too familiar, you may benefit by learning more about the phenomenon.
If you would like to learn more about support group programs for those who grew up in alcoholic homes, check the resources from Al-Anon Family Groups or the Adult Children of Alcoholics organization.

I sincerely believe that unless the victims do their own work on themselves, and place the "Why do they do that?" to the side....we can't truly move on! Abusers are broken people, but victims have separate issues we must deal with unless we plan on having ourselves go down that same path....maybe not a spouse but other people in our lifes as well...for the rest of our days! Its not meant to SHAME people - its just facts! I found with me old habit patterns that I felt were normal were actually harmful. I also found that at times it was HARD to accept, and when faced with that "change" I promised myself for a didn't hurt as much as I thought it would! The next time it got easier, and in time I truly felt growth!

This is to help your growth - not to shame and cause harm! We need to take a good look ourselves, and change our reactions also. I'm NOT talking in terms of being able to cope with abuse! God does NOT ask us to COPE with sin! I found that some will tell victims that we are called to suffer like Christ did! I'm talking in terms of why to hold on to a relationship that is very damaging - like abusive ones! I don't agree with enabling the abuser under the guise of "we are called to suffer". Christ had a purpose for his suffering, and that purpose was US! The reactions and suffering we may have to endure when we bring abuse into the light...NOW there is a purpose that God may ask us to endure! The abusers reactions, others reactions to them when it hits the fan, the possible separation, etc so we can live in safety and peace until they deal with their own issues...that suffering has a purpose! Suffering because others find this subject to hard to deal with...that is their purpose not what God wants for us! Our faith is what will get us thru that! God will be there for us then, and when we get past it.....we will see that growth God wishes for us!

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