|One Eyed, One Horned, Flying Purple People Eater!|
I have to admit I haven’t seen myself some of the examples they claim is real life in some churches. I’m no spring chicken, and have been to many churches in the past. I have never had an issue with God as the Father, and using the male terms in regards to him.
I have wonder if they like to repeat this so often that people actually believe it.
It amazes me how they can turn feminism into their pet: One eyed, One Horned, Flying Purple People Eater! (Its a children's song - see link)
I realize there are some people that have had ugly experiences with men in general, and that doesn’t always have to be women I’m speaking about. They have a hard time not using those experiences with humans, and not transferring that image to God the Father. I have also seen people overcome this fear and struggle. How? People could empathize with them due to their experiences, and helped them with this image.
I’m sure in the past some people would change the term “God” into something more female, and just outright rejected God due to fears within the human race. I’m also sure there are some true radicals that find the masculine terms towards God offensive as well, but I truly haven’t experienced this in mainstream society like they seem to have.
Mainstream is what they are claiming here!
They are attempting to use a small segment of the population, and making it into a one eyed, one horn flying purple people eater!
For example, she used:
Nancy: Was this just a matter of semantics or did altering those symbols really alter something more important than the symbols?
Mary: Whenever you change the symbol, you change the meaning. We have before us here, Nancy, just an example of the Lord’s Prayer that really illustrates this.
Nancy: I thought this was fascinating because you have side-by-side the traditional reading. Let me just read a few phrases from that, and then you tell me what the modified reading with the more inclusive, feminized language would say.
For example, the traditional reading starts, “Our Father, who art in heaven.” And the modified says . . .
Mary: The modified would say, “Our Mother/Father or our Heavenly Parent who is everywhere.”
And towards the end of this prayer:
Nancy: And then you move to the end, and it says in the biblical reading, “For thine is the kingdom and the power . . .”
Mary: Feminists would change this, “For yours is the wholeness and the power,” because kingdom is a male term and offensive.
Nancy: “. . . and the glory forever” (Matthew 6:9-13, KJV).
Mary: “The glory” they would change that to, “and the loving forever.” So when you try and take the male imagery out of the inspired text, it really changes the meaning to something that is far away from what God intended it to be.
Nancy: So it’s really altering God to be something, someone He is not.
I have heard of people trying to use more ‘gender neutral’ terms in the past, and I can honestly tell you I don’t understand the drive towards it. I also realize there are some, as I mentioned prior, which do fear such terms due to life experiences. God to me has both male and female traits as we humans explain them. I can also empathize with those that had received the wrong impression of whom God the Father is using past experiences of life, and how it can also change their views.
I’m sure some people change the terms out of motive as this interview speaks about, but again I haven’t truly seen this hard line in society overall as they seem to hint at. They speak like this small segment is trying to take over the world, and conquer it!
Nancy: How is the view of the Bible changed?
Mary: Well, the view of the Bible is that the Bible is a source of knowledge about God, but not the only source of knowledge about God. So in mainline churches they have drawn on a lot of other sources and incorporated them standing alongside the Bible.
So it’s really interesting. If you were to go into a mainline church, you will find that the Bible will be used, but there will be other sacred texts used. There will be even pagan texts used, even texts from witchcraft and Wicca religions used because they are saying, “Whatever my experience affirms as being right can be included as part of my authority.”
Huh? I have listened to sermons, read papers, etc. explaining the differences and historical backgrounds! I don’t know what churches they are going to, but to say they incorporate these teachings?
I hate to say this, but the last sentence? That also can be applied to the complementary views of scripture as well. I think, we as humans tend to do that with a lot of things, but to even hint at the fact that equality towards gender opens up the door towards this example? That is a bit of stretch, and a lot of twists and turns as well.
The selfish nature of humans I can see using that last sentence, but to say that attitude started due to feminism entering the church? Hardly! I mean seriously! Come on NOW!
Nancy: And conversely, if there are things in the Bible that my experience does not affirm, then I have to reject those parts of the Bible. So there’s been the adding of additional texts as authoritative but the rejecting of whole parts of Scripture that are not considered acceptable to us as women. What would be an example of some teachings of Scripture that have been rejected?
Mary: The main one, of course, is the authority that lies in the headship of the male that is intrinsic to marriage and also within the authority structures within the church. That’s the main one saying, “Well, we cannot have men given more authority by God in relationship. Women have the same amount of authority. “
The role interchangeability saying that men and women . . . . They may be different but their roles are interchangeable, and the woman can assume leadership in the home over spiritual matters, just as well if not better than men. All these things, all of the passages that speak to the roles of men and women, those are being rejected saying, “No, that doesn’t sound right. That doesn’t fit my frame of reference. It doesn’t fit my experience; therefore, it’s not authoritative in my life.”
WOW! If that doesn’t speak of agenda and motive I don’t know what DOES!
People have differences of how scripture is interrupted, and you can find this fact out even without talking about roles, etc. Heck I have seen that even between two males within a complementary church discussing scripture.
The way they present this is that you either agree with our version of interpretations, or you are not taking the bible as authoritative in your life. They assume that others that have also studied the word, and came up with different interpretations are doing so with selfish motive. They also make sure they place a ‘worldly’ spin on it to make sure they drive the point home.
We have to ask ourselves do people look at life as they reference in the last sentence? Yes. Did the feminist issue start that attitude? No. It’s been around for centuries if not longer. No gender cornered the market on it either.
Nancy: One of the primary fronts on which the liberal, mainline churches women began to pursue, equality in the church had to do with the whole issue of ordination of women.
Mary: It had to do with the issue of, “I can do this just as well as he can; therefore, I ought to have the right to do it.”
Nancy: There are women who can teach the Word as well or better than men, so why should they not (in just a moment here we’re not going to exhaust this subject). But what’s wrong with that way of thinking? If women can do it better, why shouldn’t they?
Mary: It’s the wrong question, Nancy. The whole question of who can do it better really focuses on us. It focuses on me versus someone else. Am I able to do it better? And it’s the wrong question. The question is how do we best glorify God?
We best glorify God in the manner He says we best glorify Him. We don’t determine how we best glorify God. God determines that, and so we need to look at God’s heart—His heart for male and His heart for female, His heart for authority, His heart for leadership. We need to look at all that and say, “God, you tell me how I best glorify you, and I will bring myself in line with that.”
Nancy: Whether I understand or not?
Mary: Whether I understand or not?
Nancy: Whether it makes sense or not, whether it fits into the cultural norm or not, I submit to his authority because He is King and Lord.
Mary: That’s right.
What seems strange about how they start this discussion about women being able to preach? If you ask women preachers WHY they perused this? They might be surprised to find that the attitude of if men can do it I should be able to as well wasn’t part of it. I’m sure they might even be floored to realize that those women also ask God how to best glorify him.
I have AGAIN seen and read these beliefs so often from comp's, and they have taught them well on how to parrot it to others. People don't enter the ministry with the 'if he can do it why can't I' attitude, and be successful. I - for one - if I hear such a thing from man, woman, or purple people eaters? I would approach the church, because no matter WHOM it is because this the wrong attitude for entering ministry.
This is also one of those points I spoke about last time, when I referenced scripture and it mentioned how the Holy Spirit determines how and when gifts given will be used. Its also one of those items that aren’t on the gender gifts list for women for the complementary belief systems, and they seem okay with usurping the Holy Spirit within the lifes of others. Instead of just being upfront about this fact they place a selfish spin on it, and make sure to sprinkle it with the radical form of feminism to make their viewpoint sound ‘biblical’.
Nancy: Now, I realize that much of what we’ve talked about today and in fact over the last few days may seem really radical and extreme to some of our listeners. You may be thinking, “Well, they don’t do that in my church. We don’t add pagan texts to the Bible as authoritative in our church. We haven’t rejected the authority of the Scripture. We still believe in the responsibility of men to provide the primary spiritual leadership in our churches and in our homes. So what does all this have to do with me and with us as evangelical, Christian women today?”
Here’s what it has to do with us. If you and I are not grounding our lives and our thinking in the Word of God, if we’re not studying and understanding what the Word of God teaches about—what it means to be male, what it means to be female and how those roles are to function within the home and within the church and within the culture—then sooner or later we will be vulnerable in our homes, in our churches, in our little Christian cultures to the very same kinds of thinking that have turned this secular culture on its ear in the last fifty years.
Talk about scare tactics, and outright lying to people! Did you notice how they placed studying scripture, and the biblical roles together? I have to wonder if they can study parts of scripture that honestly don’t even go near those aspects?!
They are bordering on cult thinking here! WATCH out for ‘those’ churches they use pagan texts to get their message across! You might be vulnerable enough to believe its part of scripture! You will fall into that ‘worldly trap’ that has turned the world on its ear!
When they do this type of thing? I seriously have to wonder if they think people are downright stupid.
So this is not just an issue for others to be concerned about. This is something we need to be educated about. In studying and seeing where we’ve come, what its philosophical moorings and shifts have been, there can be for us a caution and a warning to make sure that our lives and our thinking are really grounded in a proper understanding of the Word of God.
Listen, theology matters. Your view of God will determine your view of every other aspect of life. So let’s make sure we are not sloppy in our theology, that we’re not casual, that we take it seriously, and that we really are women of the Word.
WOW! That’s a leap! If you don’t believe the same things they do? You aren’t really women of the Word, and don’t think theology matters. It was the culture of feminism that changed the world’s thinking, and don’t let them change your way of thinking to something selfish.
Leslie Basham: That’s Nancy Leigh DeMoss explaining that theology isn’t just something that academics debate. It’s something we live every moment of our lives. Our guest, Mary Kassian, can help you form a well-reasoned, biblical theology of God and women. She tackles some tough subjects in her book, The Feminist Mistake. By reading it you’ll understand better how feminism rose as an idea and how it gained some wide spread acceptance. You’ll also see what the Bible says and learn how to guard against wrong thinking.
1) Women are afraid to use the term God the Father, and must neutralize those gender terms to change scripture to make it more palatable for them.
2) Mainstream churches now incorporate other texts such as witchcraft into their teachings. Feminist's helped them with the thinking, 'Whatever my experience affirms as being right can be included as part of my authority!"
3) Male Headship and authority is 'intrinsic' to marriage. Feminist's introduced the thinking that this doesn't fit my frame of reference than its not authoritative to my life.
4) Female Preachers want the title 'Preacher' because they feel women can do a better job, or just as good of a job as males. They of course focus on ME ME ME, and not what glorifies God.
5) We realize such beliefs are not present at your church, but you need to realize they are OUT THERE! Why do we need to know these things? 'If you and I are not grounding our lives and our thinking in the Word of God, if we’re not studying and understanding what the Word of God teaches about—what it means to be male, what it means to be female and how those roles are to function within the home and within the church and within the culture—then sooner or later we will be vulnerable in our homes, in our churches, in our little Christian cultures to the very same kinds of thinking that have turned this secular culture on its ear in the last fifty years.'
Yep! Look out for the one eyed, one horned, flying purple people eaters!
If they seriously feel this is what ‘mainstream’ churches teach? They need to visit some, so they can experience a reality POP! They may not agree with all of their beliefs, but they might be surprised how their doctrine doesn’t go anywhere NEAR what they are talking about!
If you have to twist and turn things that badly to make your point? Is it any wonder why people don’t take them seriously, and wonder what part of earth they live on? These are scare tactics to the extreme, and you aren’t going to be ‘vulnerable’ to the secular culture not to see it.
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