tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post3056699516972624622..comments2024-02-08T21:51:21.368-06:00Comments on Emotional Abuse and Your Faith: Agunah is to stay chainedHannahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15165967476661656865noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post-69016812418271503192010-11-15T20:00:48.857-06:002010-11-15T20:00:48.857-06:00"If I were that averse to trials and inconven..."If I were that averse to trials and inconveniences I would not have left my husband. It is definitely easier keeping the peace, denying the abuse, and pretending everything is OK to finding my own way, living as his ex, harassed and stalked, worrying about future employment,..." <br /><br />Amen! and AMEN! And worrying about continued employment and lower $ per hour, how to make ends meet, the effect of the abuse on the children, the effect of the abuse on my health and theirs, the gigantic load of responsibility that I feel I will have to carry and not be able to rest from for years and years, the "wicked woman" tarring the church dumps onto abused wives who leave. I believe most women do not leave until they think they absolutely MUST. <br /><br />Anonymous #3 said: "Ask yourself, over the past 50 years has the church more/less followed the culture...clearly yes, in degrees.<br />Therefore as the culture has "feminized" lacking better word, so has the church, and more equality, egalitarian or simply omitting gender order teaching in fear of offense, not speaking clearly on divorce for fear of offence, the church is today fer LESS as you represent here than it was 50 years ago." <br /><br />That is the wrong question. If the church has followed culture so closely, why are the divorce rates among conservative Christians higher than among atheists and non-conservative Christians? With all the wife submit and husband authority that is preached & pressured, and the stay married until he kills you ideology, and the blame the wife for her husbands sins, the better question is: Since these are the one thing that make Christian marriages different from other marriages, is it possible that these are CAUSING the high divorce rate among Christians?<br /><br />Anonymous 3, I'd like to ask you what is marriage to you? Is it staying together, or is it fulfulling your vows to love and cherish? If the wife keeps her vows, but the husband acts like he has an exception clause excusing him from loving and cherishing, doesn't that make the marriage vows a sham? The next question is Was it God who joined a loving spouse with a fraud, or was it a con artist who did so? <br /><br />Also, the culture has not feminized. Women are considered more manish today, more competent and assertive. The culture has grown less gender-polorized in behavior. Men are beginning to behave less as muscle he-men, except for abusers, that is, but that is a far cry from making them feminine. Unless, you are advocating that men get even more domineering because women are more competent and assertive.Waneta Dawnhttp://submissiontyranny.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post-42041219053641768242010-11-12T16:12:03.020-06:002010-11-12T16:12:03.020-06:00Thank you for your prayers, Hannah.
"All the...Thank you for your prayers, Hannah.<br /><br />"All the while - those victims wait." That is precisely what happened. My unchurched family members were putting me down for my insanity at staying, my Christian counsel was not to contemplate leaving or at least not permanently. My secular womens advocate was the most helpful - respectful yet empowering. In the end I got out because I was getting burnt in the boiling pot and all the debating in the world was not helping. I thought, "Carry on debating, but if you don't mind, I'll climb out - it's beyond my pain barrier."<br /><br />"Damned if you do, damned if you don't" - the unfortunate story of our lives. But the blessing in disguise is that it makes us exceptionally strong women, possessing a resolute inner strength that beggars belief. Somehow, we do the impossible and amidst the pressure from the church, the intimidation of our abusers and the doubts in our own heads, we manage to struggle and break free. Not surprising, given that God is ever-ready to help the oppressed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post-13180946637017202642010-11-11T21:41:28.567-06:002010-11-11T21:41:28.567-06:00Anonymous - I will be praying for you and your fam...Anonymous - I will be praying for you and your family.<br /><br />'To compare divorcing for abuse to being unhappy because of the rigors of parenting is to severely minimize the experience of abuse. Hardship doesn't cause long-lasting psychological and emotional damage.'<br /><br />So true! I find society at large at times is very good at finding diversions in their speeches more than dealing with the facts when it comes to domestic violence. It shows me at least they are scared to deal with it head on. <br /><br />NOW if we could find an approach that doesn't make everyone defensive? WELL we might be on to something. They are to busy saying it doesn't happen to often, or fight about who is the worse victim or who is more victimized. All the while - those victims wait. The families of abuse are damned if they do or damned if they don't. Blamed if they stay or if they go. The 'rational' world never sees the bottleneck there.Hannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165967476661656865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post-45249752507657281322010-11-11T19:33:34.288-06:002010-11-11T19:33:34.288-06:00Anonymous has some fallacies in what he says. Firs...Anonymous has some fallacies in what he says. Firstly, you cannot "lock women into abuse". Women who are not abused cannot be locked into abuse. Even abused women do not want to leave their marriage. Those who leave because they are unhappy have enough preaching to ensure that they know they are not doing the right thing. But those who need to leave because of the lack of safety rarely, if never, hear the message that they can do so, because God does not tolerate evil and staying in an abusive marriage is allowing idolatory (bowing down to the wishes of a demi-god)and evil (mistreatment of the family). Divorce in these cases don't hurt the kids - it saves them. It does hurt the one who doesn't want to leave, but abusers rarely want to leave, and their wishes cannot be prioritized over the protection of the other family members.<br /><br />Why have more and more left their marriages? Well, I know that in my own extended family, domestic violence is endemic. None of them are divorced, although one did run away in fear (her husband sold off her child to slavery to punish her for it). The fact that the divorce rate was very low was not anything to celebrate. Maybe in the past, people stayed and look at the consequence - children growing up with violence and generations affected. My siblings and I still suffer severely from the effects of our upbringing, although my parents are not divorced. I will not make the same mistake with my children, and my older children are thankful to me for that. My younger ones won't understand till they are older, and in particular if other ignorant adults try to imply that they are better off with both parents.<br /><br />To compare divorcing for abuse to being unhappy because of the rigors of parenting is to severely minimize the experience of abuse. Hardship doesn't cause long-lasting psychological and emotional damage. If I were that averse to trials and inconveniences I would not have left my husband. It is definitely easier keeping the peace, denying the abuse, and pretending everything is OK to finding my own way, living as his ex, harassed and stalked, worrying about future employment, caring for a large number of kids and having your reputation ruined by a manipulative abuser who is not recognized as one in the church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post-84134614755530127972010-11-10T07:48:51.972-06:002010-11-10T07:48:51.972-06:00Agunah is a straw man?
In Jewish culture it is st...Agunah is a straw man?<br /><br />In Jewish culture it is still present to this day. It has survived since biblical times, and there are organizations that help the process become complete even today. Google it if you don't believe me!<br /><br />Its human nature - not just gender - to realize that 'dominance' as you put it can indeed have an evil ring to it. Check history! There are patterns of dominance going bad all through out time. Marriage is hardly immune, and making it out as a 'gender' issue? That's silly no offense.<br /><br />Stating the church doesn't place the whole truth out there regarding 'putting away' and 'divorce' is fact. Google: "The Gallery of Husbands" that was ran in Yiddish newspapers around the turn of century. They posted names, pictures, etc of husbands that abandon the families 'put away', and refused the 'get' so that the wife could not be remarried within the Jewish culture. Do you feel only the wife's were effected by that? Hardly!<br /><br />The bible is based in Jewish culture, and these concepts are still being used today. So stating I'm blaming an old teaching doesn't make any sense. I stated the way it has been presented in the church is inaccurate. If you feel the 'truth' is going to make things worse? God must have some purpose in that. Truth is what he stands for after all.<br /><br />There have been loads of men, women and children effected by the abuse dealt out by their families. The prison system for example is stock full of such individuals. Abuse is a society ill, and people that tend to make it more gender focused are naive at best. Stating that is not common? Those poor folks need to open their eyes a bit wider. We see examples of it all the time, and the victims are wide reaching. Effects are seen all over society.<br /><br />I'm sorry but stating abuse is 'uncommon'? Evil has been around since the Garden of Eden.Hannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165967476661656865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post-47881155628842069962010-11-10T06:31:12.641-06:002010-11-10T06:31:12.641-06:00Oh, its not the God wants people to be miserable, ...Oh, its not the God wants people to be miserable, but that logic is badly flawed when applied to divorce. <br />There is not ONE Biblical precedent that trumpets doing something, breaking a covenant, and in many cases producing victims by hurting others (kids, a spouse who wants to stay married) in order for YOU to be happy...thats so counter to the gospel I am amazed people say that. <br /><br />I hear it from women all the time as a friend decides to divorce they encourage the divorce using these terms, "God wants you happy"<br /><br />Do folks really believe that in this case?<br /><br />I think God wants people to be happy too, so, getting up and feeding and changing a baby at 2AM....that cannot be what God has.....stop that....working and providing...nah, He cant want that, its hard and Im unhappy about it....so stop....we could really make a mess if we go for the "God wants me happy" belief set.<br /><br />But, contrary to the claims here, that is the teaching in todays church, a dose of pop psychology and dilute gospelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post-53746658984625538552010-11-10T06:26:31.203-06:002010-11-10T06:26:31.203-06:00The problem is you have created a straw man. You a...The problem is you have created a straw man. You and all those who seem set on convincing everyone that teaching male dominance and the evil of divorce and locking women in abuse are creating fear of something that is quite uncommon.<br />A meta analysis is all it takes. Ask yourself, over the past 50 years has the church more/less followed the culture...clearly yes, in degrees.<br />Therefore as the culture has "feminized" lacking better word, so has the church, and more equality, egalitarian or simply omitting gender order teaching in fear of offense, not speaking clearly on divorce for fear of offence, the church is today fer LESS as you represent here than it was 50 years ago. <br />Yet, the destruction of the family has exponentially increased. Therefore blaming that old teaching for it is painfully contradictory. The more we go the way you recommend, the worse it gets, this applies across the board, secular and in churchAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post-59170679160233696852010-11-06T09:27:27.314-05:002010-11-06T09:27:27.314-05:00I think some people will say that being obedient i...I think some people will say that being obedient instead of 'happy' is what God is after. That maybe true in some circumstances. For example, in times of life's stresses, dealing with illness, etc. You don't say I'm not happy anymore so BYE!<br /><br />There is no doubt there are people that just stick around for happiness, but when abuse is present its more about escaping the danger. People of faith that don't wish to 'deal' the dynamics of abuse? They use the word 'happy' against them, and ignore the human realm of 'surviving'. Its a play on words instead of reality. You ever notice that?<br /><br />No. I don't think God is pleased at all with the game of words. He doesn't wish them to live a life of misery due to another's sinful nature. He sees this as survival more than happiness because he is capable of seeing past the words they used. I think people can as well, but at times play their doctrine game anyway.<br /><br />God sees it all, and people pretend its not there. People spin the truth, but God does not. lol he is the 'no spin zone'! That just popped into my head...lolol! I like that! He is no spin zone of doctrine!Hannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165967476661656865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post-85723715444592710632010-11-06T02:05:39.247-05:002010-11-06T02:05:39.247-05:00"We tell them they have no choice - its law! ..."We tell them they have no choice - its law! Then they sprinkle it with spiritual pixie dust to make it look better than it is. No wonder they look at love as wishy washy, and not dependable. It wouldn't fit the doctrine otherwise"<br /><br />SOOOOOO true!! I don't get why forcing people to stay married when their is abuse or unhappiness is a good thing. I can't imagine Hashem wants people to be miserable!Barbarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10793044176961385860noreply@blogger.com