tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post6245073028007844372..comments2024-02-08T21:51:21.368-06:00Comments on Emotional Abuse and Your Faith: If that will make you feel safer to think that then go ahead, but its wrong!Hannahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15165967476661656865noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post-47764575662856118992012-06-20T11:39:17.587-05:002012-06-20T11:39:17.587-05:00I can't help but think the facilitator needs t...I can't help but think the facilitator needs to cool her jets personally. The issues didn't cause the abuse - the abuser did. Its not their job to make something that isn't there.<br /><br />If there are 'issues' than the person needs to see that for themselves. The issues don't cause the abuse. It just doesn't. Its up to them if they wish to work on them - just like anyone else.<br /><br />What counseling did for me was not even go near that, but showed me (in my example) how to be assertive. How to learn I wouldn't die, or wouldn't be killed, hurt, etc around healthy people. Its okay to own things, and its okay to disagree. How do I handle things in ways to keep myself safe even with 'unhealthy' people. <br /><br />They never once told me that due to my non assertive ways in some fashion the abuse was my fault. <br /><br />For myself? Learning to be more assertive helped in more areas of my life than I could have imagined. Now did that cause the abuse? Nope. The abuser did that. I could have learned to be more assertive in different ways. I could have learned under different circumstances. If I never did, and never got abused? Their 'theory' didn't line up very well.<br /><br />People need to allow the fault to lie where it needs to. If wouldn't matter if I never learned to assert myself in healthy ways, because its the decision of the other person to harm me. I'm not going to own even 5% of that ever!Hannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165967476661656865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post-69029662525887676272012-06-20T08:00:18.678-05:002012-06-20T08:00:18.678-05:00Thanks, Hannah. I really do get what your article ...Thanks, Hannah. I really do get what your article and that woman in the documentary is saying, but I don't find a lot of validation for that even among survivors. <br /><br />What if it is a DV facilitator that is trying to get victims to see what was in them that abusers found so tempting to grasp? I appreciate you pointing out that it isn't something that is needed right away, or in a time of true struggle. Something in me certainly grates when I hear statements that subtly blames the victim, even if it is couched with "I'm not saying you caused the abuse..." then they add "But we are all responsible for ourselves, and what was your 5% in it?"<br /><br />If it takes years to get to this point, the facilitator will feel like she is not doing her job getting people to see her point that they need to work on their issues.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post-84639961185890073382012-06-16T10:33:20.187-05:002012-06-16T10:33:20.187-05:00I'm sorry Anonymous. I know what you mean. T...I'm sorry Anonymous. I know what you mean. The pastor needs to look at himself first, and see if the atmosphere at his church is willing to hear - not go an hunting trip looking for blame/fault. You needed support and to be edified (lifted up) at that point. Not some speech about how you should have....<br /><br />With most families, you will try to handle things within the family. Its not an oddity.<br /><br />It's when they attempt to reach out does everything tend to fall apart, unless those parties are willing to help carry the burden? They also need to carry some blame if they feel blame is want is needed at that point. Personally, I don't think blame at that point is going to be fruitful at all. There is a time and place for everything.<br /><br />That is where the Just World reality is used. <br /><br />If not speaking up on some timeline you have in mind makes you feel safer? You go ahead and think that but its wrong.<br /><br />Someone should have mentioned that things do tend to escalate,and the safest thing to do is plan for the worse beforehand. Sometimes you can do this, and other times its just not possible. His timeline would have made no difference, and he needs to own that. He may not. That also is the Just World Reality. How things would have not fallen apart if you picked the best time. Its silly if you think about it. lol I mean can you he give you a guarantee in writing?<br /><br />The woman in my story above? She reached out time and time again. She reached out to the church, to the police, and agencies. No one helped them. Her husband took advantage of that, and that is what kept her stuck for so long. The man was evil, and I don't think she even knew until much later how evil. (ie: this was happening for more than 25 year span - after many arrests, etc.)<br /><br />Validation at times comes in some form - even something small. An old neighbor about this time in her life had his wife pass away. She had her husband find her, and apologize for doing nothing KNOWING full well what was happening within that house. <br /><br />It was her dying wish, and he followed up on that. He also offered his help at that point, but I think she was so afraid to accept help from anyone at that point I don't know if she did or not.<br /><br />No one was prepared to help you when things feel apart. That is their fault (if fault is needed), but they may never admit it. When you deal with abuse you need to educate yourself first (the person willing to help), or find someone that is educated to help everyone along with this struggle. No doubt it would still be hard, but things would be better.<br /><br />I guess we could lay blame the pastor for not helping with a strategy to deal with things. It doesn't take a genius to realize people need that. lol that gets up my nose as you put it! Even if it was after the fact!<br /><br />There is nothing wrong with hinting to the victim that maybe they need help dealing with codependency, enabling behavior, etc. It should be approached in way that is genuine, and not of blame finding. It isn't needed right away, or in a time of true struggle. I find that you hear these things better once a relationship with trust, love, and true concern is present going both ways. lol heck even then you need to make sure its at a time they can hear - and not get defensive! This could take years and years to get to this point.<br /><br /><br />My LONG winded response to you? That pastor was also in his zone of denial. Speaking up was the best thing, but support during your trials was still needed. Heck - even after the worse parts if they have already passed! His timeline speech is bunk. He needs to own that.Hannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165967476661656865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post-26867644829670443012012-06-15T20:11:01.122-05:002012-06-15T20:11:01.122-05:00Hannah, I get what you mean. I don't mind it s...Hannah, I get what you mean. I don't mind it so much if it comes from a survivor because she is relaying her experience and not being told what her experience is or should have been.<br /><br />I guess I am still at a stage where I react to any hint of blaming the victim, and professionals and friends alike who insinuate that there is something flawed in the victim gets up my nose. As true as it is that there are vulnerabilities in traumatized people, sometimes what we witness is not something innate in the person, but reactions or resistance to the abuse, eg not speaking up. I don't really have a problem speaking up but the pastor told me I was at fault for not speaking up. So I did, and the marriage broke up. <br /><br />Now I realze I had a reason for not speaking up, because I knew it would escalate things and eventually everything would fall apart, and I had no strategy then to deal with it, what with children, and no finances or support. <br /><br />Keep up the good work!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post-66580965832762516452012-06-15T19:04:20.394-05:002012-06-15T19:04:20.394-05:00I do believe for myself I had vulnerabilities way ...I do believe for myself I had vulnerabilities way back when that were attractive to abusive types.<br /><br />FOR EXAMPLE: I learned from my past experiences as a child and young adult that you shut up if you can't go along with the status quo. I also learned the consequences if I didn't. I learned to be very afraid of speaking up. That is just one issue of course, but most can see THAT can make me ripe for abusive treatment. I realize I'm generalizing here, but I hope you catch my drift.<br /><br />Yes, I had to learn that speaking out for myself - and things I disagreed with was okay. I had to fight the fear and anxiety. It was a hard battle!<br /><br />If I could not find it within myself to work on myself I have no doubt I would have continued to be walked on the rest of my days.<br /><br />Now, would that trait be a good one to use against me in conversations to show HOW the abuse was my fault? How it was partially my fault? I didn't even see it for years and years. It was drilled into me that THIS was the correct way to deal with things.<br /><br />To me it would be cruel to be honest. I did the best I could with the tools I had available at the time. Life handed me new tools as time went on, and I'm sure newer tools will be gifted. <br /><br />If they can't grasp how that can happen to people? Its because they don't want too. I suppose they could learn to be very outspoken, and solid as a hard with their belief system to make sure they didn't go down my path. Does it make it my fault that they did - and I was raised NOT to?<br /><br />To me that is silly reasoning.<br /><br />Is a child that was molested at fault due to self esteem or naivety? No way! Where does the ownership of the molesters actions start, and their victim's end? Its telling that no one can answer that. It makes them too uncomfortable.<br /><br />Abusive personalities look for those vulnerabilities. Its easier to control things if they know the soft spot. You see it in movies, crime stories from newspapers, etc.<br /><br />People accept that while watching the show or reading the newspaper. If it is up close and personal? Totally different reaction.<br /><br />I encourage people to find good therapy, but keep in mind there are BAD therapist out there as well. Some don't have clue one about abusive dynamics, yet don't leave it out of their 'specialize' lists in advertisements.<br /><br />No doubt I still have soft spots - like everyone does - but I also have better tools now. It was up to me once I learned about my soft spot that does me harm. Telling me the ignorance that was banged into me as child makes it my fault?<br /><br />lol if it makes them feel safer to believe it? Go ahead, but its wrong.Hannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165967476661656865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10948559.post-49497309469944984212012-06-15T17:54:06.941-05:002012-06-15T17:54:06.941-05:00What about therapists who try to work with the vic...What about therapists who try to work with the victim to see what it is in them that causes attraction to the abusive types? Is it true that some, perhaps, do have dynamics in them that pull them to abusive people? <br /><br />I am constantly battling this because I am indignantly against victim-blaming but will always bump into people who may come around to agree with me, then point to someone they know who "asks" for it by their naivety or issues of self-esteem. I am not a therapist so I don't know if there are some that are like that. I certainly know that in my case, there is nothing I did or could have done to prevent it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com